Ep 399 - Finding Purpose After The Chronic Pain Of Grief with Jeff Ross

Ian Hawkins 0:02

Are you ready, ready to release internal pain to find confidence, clarity and direction for your future, to live a life of meaning, fulfillment and contribution to trust your intuition again, but something's been holding you back, you've come to the right place. Welcome. I'm a Ian Hawkins, the host and founder of The Grief Code podcast. Together, let's heal your unresolved or unknown grief by unlocking your grief code. As you tune into each episode, you will receive insight into your own grief, how to eliminate it and what to do next. Before we start by one request, if any new insights or awareness land with you during this episode, please send me an email at info at the Ian Hawkins coaching.com. And let me know what you found. I know the power of this word, I love to hear the impact these conversations have. Okay, let's get into it.

Sometimes grief is not what you think it is. It's not always someone passing away. It's it's not always those massive moments that you're familiar with. But it's anything where your idea of what your future would look like it's taken away from you. And in this chat with Jeff Rossi, he talks about how he had a couple of thoughts for his future would be one was sales, which he went the long road to finally getting back to. But he also was was working with horses. And that that's just how he saw what his future was going to be until he had an accident where horse basically came down on his neck and very lucky to be alive. And he shares how he came out the other side of that how he battled with extreme pain, chronic pain, ongoing pain, dependency on painkillers, and also falling into a deep depression as he had to face a whole new way of living life. It's a really open chat, really courageous chat, and you'll get a heap out of this around your own purpose around recovering from those moments of loss and where your future plans had to change. So really, I'm really happy about sharing this one because it's really touches on a lot of the things that I regularly talk about here on the individual episodes guy. Oh, and welcome Jeff Ross, Jeff Oh, a good Mac is off. Going well, thank you. We met through business, observing what each of us were doing had some cool conversations around purpose and that sort of stuff. So I'm sure we're getting that into that today. The main reason we were talking today that was just your life journey and some of the huge setbacks you've been through, and we're just sort of going through them then. And you've, you've been through a lot more, you said, you are tenacious and you don't give up. And I guess that has to be the case when you've been through as many different challenges as your view that you have. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 3:00

yeah, it's wife definitely likes to throw curveballs that she doesn't.

Ian Hawkins 3:05

100% So you said when you were 26, you had a horse accident? Was that because you were while you're in to horsing or was like, tell me a little bit a bit about how that all unfolded?

Speaker 2 3:20

Yeah, so I grew up on horse studs. I'm gonna get on a horse dad. So I grew up learning how to ride a horse before I could walk. And in my 20s You know, that's all I ever wanted to do. I just wanted to just go and be a cowboy. Although I went over New Zealand for a working holiday, and working on one of the big racing, thoroughbred breeding stables over Waikato stuff. And I was the stallion manager at the time. And so my job was to help the stallion go and do his job in the breeding season. So we had this mate and there was her first time being serviced. Do you want really a bar of it? And I was holding them there and she basically when the statement to go and jump and do his job, she read up, struck me down and decided to full on attack me and stepped on my neck. At the age of 26 Yeah, I had a horse jump on my neck and I ended up with three cross disc and badly damaged my right shoulder, all the nerves.

Ian Hawkins 4:22

I imagine people have actually had far worse injuries in those sort of situations.

Speaker 2 4:28

Yeah, yeah, they got I was lucky to be alive. Someone told me that that time today. Yeah, this was before. I always used to really crack down especially in New Zealand. So it wasn't compulsory to like wear a helmet in Britain stables. Someone told me to put it on and on that day. I'm glad I did because the helmet had 10 cracks in it. Oh, wow. Yeah. If I didn't have the helmet on I probably wouldn't be telling the story.

Ian Hawkins 4:51

I say it had a few days a

Unknown Speaker 4:53

year jumped on me a couple of times.

Unknown Speaker 4:56

She wasn't she wasn't she wasn't nice about it. She was pretty vicious about it. Yeah.

Ian Hawkins 5:01

Pardon me Khan understands that right?

Unknown Speaker 5:04

Well, yeah, it's pretty forceful. But um, yeah.

Ian Hawkins 5:14

Do you remember much of the like we conscious through the whole thing?

Speaker 2 5:17

Now is Doctor Yeah, straightaway, I only remember what from what people told me out of action for about six months, probably went back to work at it too early. And so from there about three years later at age 29, I actually was starting to put on a bit of weight because it wasn't been as physical. And I decided to go and do something about that. So I hopped on a rowing machine at the gym. And when I was on the rowing machine, I must adjust the way I moved or something like that just just been enough to slip the disc and actually just pinched that nerve from my right arm just enough. And yeah, excruciating pain going down my right arms be like pinching your sciatic nerve in your leg. Yeah, I just lost all my ability on my right arm. Just so overnight, we've pretty much been put onto a disability pension. So that was fun.

Ian Hawkins 6:09

Oh, geez, did I want to go back just like two blog posts the incident but I just want to ask you there like, Did that scare you in when that initially happened? Like, how did you feel? And suddenly you've lost all movement?

Speaker 3 6:23

Yeah. Terrifying. Yeah. Bigger. What's going on?

Speaker 2 6:30

Yeah, just the whole experience was terrifying. Yeah. Especially, uh, yeah. Only only 29.

Ian Hawkins 6:40

Yeah. 100%. So if we just go post the excellent. So did you like come to in the in a hospital bed and not really know what's going on at that point, or you have memories of the incident.

Speaker 2 6:55

So I was knocked out during the accident. And I sort of come to conscious when the ambulance guys were there putting even put me in the ambulance. And I sort of knew what happened straightaway. Yeah, well, I was in a fair amount of pain. And I just sort of predicted it was going to happen before it actually happened. That's why normally I was the guy holding the stallion. And this in this time, I just got feeling just said now are going to be the one holding the mare this time, because it's always the most experienced in the shed. And yeah, just sort of could predict it was gonna happen.

Ian Hawkins 7:30

You're right. I imagine things could have been horribly worse. If you weren't in that position, then.

Speaker 2 7:39

Yeah, yeah. It's one of those things, I'm lucky to be talking with you I'd be alive. I'm lucky not to be in a wheelchair. You know, there's a, there's a lot of things that I look back at it. And it was a bit of a blessing in disguise. But at the time, it was it was pretty terrifying.

Ian Hawkins 7:55

So what about the aftermath? Like, were you you said you had neck three neck fractures? What will you have to be in traction after that? Or like, what was the recovery like?

Speaker 2 8:07

So I was basically in hospital for two months. And then I was basically in a neck brace for six months after that. That year. So the end of the day, like the result of damage was I ended up with three crushed disc in the back of my neck. But the doctors at the time, they said, Look, we there's two things we can do for you is we can come over here to here, go in and fuse them. Or we can I you know, just don't show up on painkillers for the rest of your life.

Ian Hawkins 8:32

Yeah, so the people who are listening and not not seeing what Jeff just did the end, basically from his chin all the way down to Australia, the front, like, on with you. Say Yeah, sorry.

Speaker 2 8:44

Yeah, go in from the front and throat and basically go in and fuse the disk.

Ian Hawkins 8:49

Yeah. Which, as I imagine most people you chose to go a different path

Speaker 2 8:54

that I told him how I was going to worry about doing that until I was at least 60 years old that Berg couldn't walk anymore. So yeah, but God's been good. And he's been he's been able to sort of take care of the pain for me.

Ian Hawkins 9:10

So you said you probably went back to work too early. Like how soon after what your back working?

Speaker 2 9:16

are about nine months after that. Probably should have had probably good 18 months off recovery. Yeah, it was all just all a bit rushed. And I did it. Silly myself. I do. I went back to work myself too early. I tried to work with horses, but then I ended up having to change careers and I got into sales from there.

Ian Hawkins 9:38

So no one was pushing you to get back you were just like, I gotta get back. Or you're

Unknown Speaker 9:42

bored. Bored, young and dumb.

Ian Hawkins 9:47

Okay, young and but you said something really key there. You kind of predicted it. Is that something that you've identified now in you in lots of different areas before and after that where you kind of can have these premonitions about how things are going to unfold. Oh,

Unknown Speaker: 10:00

yeah, it's funny you say that?

: 10:04

Not necessarily in the moment there's only probably been one or two times in my life that I've actually done it yet actually in the moment, but I remember having sort of dreams or visions or whatever, you know, six months two years and then all the sudden that things actually come you know, almost to the letter come through.

Ian Hawkins: 10:24

So you mean like when you're asleep dreams or? Yeah,

: 10:28

I'm very very clear a clear as die very vivid clear as died dreams and like, I remember when I was about 17. I remember you know, having this this dream about basically being on this cattle station in North Queensland, I had no idea where it was at the time. And like the ringers quarters you know, where the Stockman slipped and all that sort of thing and ran during the building and, and and looking out at the sunset and that and then two years later, you know, I basically witnessed that whole vision come to life just the almost like the exact exact same sort of building the exact same sunset. Yeah, it's uncanny.

Ian Hawkins: 11:06

We were you aware of enough to go what I've seen this before you piece that together later. Now it's all good felt like deja

: 11:13

vu. Deja vu moment and, and then it's like, it was like about probably three days later. Ah, that's why that felt like deja vu.

Ian Hawkins: 11:23

He lived it a few times. Now, we'll come to you finding your face that, like, at that point, it's not anything that's a big part of your life. But did you have any thoughts around the fact that you were having these prophetic dreams or any work that make you question things or concerned or

: 11:46

it may be started probably explore things and be open to things a bit more. Yeah. Like I grew up in, in an atheistic family, and anything that was, you know, religious, or you know, higher power, or whatever you want to call it, you know, it was always just sort of taking the mickey out of taking the piss out of things. Sort of was just, you know, pushed under the carpet. So, yeah, so I, I definitely had questions, and I definitely started to open up about things.

Ian Hawkins: 12:22

Do you think there was a curiosity you had prior to then? Or this only came post the accident?

: 12:29

Now, I've always had a curiosity. Yeah. Purely because,

: 12:34

yeah, it's got nothing to why my father raised me and I got that that is the way the way he is. And he's got his stories. But um, I was the kid at school that was sent to school with a note saying that my son's not to attend anything to do with scripture. So and scripture was on is that goes out in the hall. So yeah, so that always, you know, I suppose I started getting curiosity, curious about things then. But over time, I didn't ask questions. It was always shut down.

Ian Hawkins: 13:00

Hmm. Wow. As a kid that that I imagine that would have been challenging to get the fact that it's scripture or anything like that, the fact that you've just been like no other option, you just out in the hall?

: 13:15

Yeah, I made that I would be became different all the other kids and I, you know, I was severely bullied as as kid at school.

Ian Hawkins: 13:23

As a result of that, you think?

: 13:26

I'm not gonna put any blame on it? But yeah, it's probably one of the reasons

Ian Hawkins: 13:29

here. Right? And what's the impact of that? Have you grown up?

: 13:33

Now? My father's relationship with my father is very strained. But yeah, it's, I suppose I've had to adopt, like a rhino skin, you know, let let things run off. But, you know, back then the things, you know, like words used to cut pretty deep and, and now it's like, well, they just bounce off. And so I'd say, you know, as I say, the boss throws testers. So we just say, Okay, what's next? So I suppose, in essence, it's helped me on my character to be more resilient.

Ian Hawkins: 14:06

Yeah. And from mine, that's one of the best gifts that we get out of those tough times. Right. Is, is the ability to then build our own coping mechanisms to get through.

: 14:16

Yeah, yeah. You know, like, the Bible actually teaches us to be grateful for our trials and tribulations, you know, because that's where we're testing. That's where we, our character gets strengthened.

Ian Hawkins: 14:25

Yeah, absolutely. To me, that's where we find our greatest strength. And we, I don't know if you've experienced this, but we tend to have those same challenges repeat over and over again, in different forms in different ways. So so we really like for each individual's journey is different, but that particular muscle team it tends to get built again and again and again. Right.

: 14:46

Yeah, I think personally, I think that's, there's a reason behind that. It's probably we haven't looked less than the first time around, around until we learned that lesson. Also, it helps us to become more empathetic with others go through similar lessons and similar trials, were able to empathize with them. There's a great book out there by a called Joseph Campbell by the killer the hero's journey. And I'm always reflected back to that. It's like, okay, yep. This is just another abyss moment. You know, this is just another test. Yeah. And in my 20s, I didn't have that, that that wisdom or that do now?

Ian Hawkins: 15:22

I'm pretty sure it was a conversation around that and around story that we connected with originally, right?

Unknown Speaker: 15:27

Yeah. Around purpose. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ian Hawkins: 15:30

So what have you learned through through going through those trials and tribulations? What have you learned about your own purpose?

Unknown Speaker: 15:36

Yeah, great, great question.

: 15:40

I think I've always skirted around my last put my purpose for the last probably 15 years. But now I know that I'm definitely on the right path. To you know, fulfilling my purpose. I think, you know, going through trials, I've had to go through my test and my trials to be able to come out of that, to be able to understand what my purpose is. Yeah.

Ian Hawkins: 16:04

So I'd love to take you just back to the, to the recovery and the impact of all of that. So when you said you pre went back to work too early, was that from a physical perspective? Or did it play out for you mentally or emotionally as well?

: 16:23

Yeah, you gotta hustle and quick questions after? Yeah, definitely physically. But I suppose mentally, I

: 16:32

don't know, because I couldn't do what I had sort of, like I or what I was good at. I had to go through my own grief of that video, because I, you know, it was almost like a loss in itself. Yeah, I'm not going to do that, that that thing that I was good at, you know, like, I was pretty good at breaking horses and all that and not being able to do that anymore. It was like, oh, okay, so what do I do? So I went from job to job, he probably good five, six years after that I yeah, when I reflect back on it did sort of, I went from job to job, create a creative sort of force to try and find myself again. So I've gone from working on horse studs to hospitality. I went and rose up the ranks pretty quickly in in the pubs that I was working to the stage that I was the overseer of three pubs, managing 100 people. And the global financial crisis come in, and I lost that role. And I'm going back home to Australia. And I found myself into the sales area, so but I was going probably probably job to job pretty quickly trying to find my feet there until I found my feet at the National College of Business. In Brisbane, which was I was the lead business development manager there. And so yeah, so the three four year period after me accident, going through, you know, trying to find my feet. And then 2930 I basically say, copped on that role machine and loss of mobility, my right arm, and that's when the doctors put me on a disability pension. So

Ian Hawkins: 18:07

you mentioned there about going through your own grief. And to me, that's part of the the message that I want to share is like, is there any sense of loss like that is grief? Yeah. Particularly when you're really good at what you do? You had this future mapped out, and then it's taken away from you no fault of your own. It's having this seat where that's, that's one of the most challenging parts, right? Yeah. And

: 18:32

I only just realized that that was, that was grief back then. You know, so don't just realize that the last sort of five, six years myself at the start at the time, like, I suppose that's why I ended up being a bit depressed because I couldn't put any words to it. And I was feeling lost, I was feeling hopeless, I'd like I lost my identity. So and, at that time, newly married, had our first child. He was two and our second was only four months old. And that was a struggle for all that on top of on top of everything else. When I did my my neck and my shoulder, and it ended up being sort of having my arm play up 12 months prior to that. My wife, no six, six months prior to that my wife's mother, and I'm getting terminally ill with cancer. So we packed up our bags and we moved down from Brisbane to Grafton, so my wife could become her mother's full time carer. And pretty much overnight. We've gone from both having very successful jobs nearly married. Our first son was on the way. And then she my wife's done being pulled out and asked to be a month full time carer. And then you know, pretty much couple months after that, my accent come to fruition on a disability pension. So yeah, so we had our lives all mapped out, you know, newly married and whatnot and then overnight, it's been turned upside down. The rug is being pulled out and yeah,

Ian Hawkins: 20:00

shock shock to the system to say the least

: 20:03

real shock to the system. And then so that was a two and a half year journey with my wife looking after her mother. And she passed. And then we decided to, you know, start again for a start. And we moved down to Tasmania in 2014 30 is the end of 2013. So, so we decided to move down, move down here and try and start again. But yeah, obviously brought all our baggage with us.

Ian Hawkins: 20:34

As you do now wonder you're feeling depressed? Like you've got all these different things happening all at once. And then you throw in them saying to you, they use what you describe pain, chronic pain syndrome, so pain that you're just going to have, and the only solution is a surgery through the front of your throat or just being on painkillers. So

: 20:58

yeah, with a with a change of percentage, like I'm a 50% chance that they would paralyze me. So it wasn't, yeah, there wasn't very high chance that they would actually fix me like it was a 5050 that they could actually do more damage.

Ian Hawkins: 21:10

Oh, wow. So there's no real option, you got to take the painkillers and hope for the best. So. So how did you get through that time? When, when you're already struggling with so many different thoughts and feelings? And how do you how did you manage to just keep going on there?

: 21:29

I don't think I did. I am curled up in a bowl under the fetal position. And I just like life sort of bypassed me there for a little bit. I got very, very, very depressed and

Unknown Speaker: 21:41

yeah, it got to the point where I did try to kill myself.

Ian Hawkins: 21:46

So how long after how long after having to deal with all that load? Did it sort of slowly bank up on you? And like, you know, your I just remember my kids, we, my kids were little, but that's just the hardest time. If you've got a child under five, like you're going to you're going to struggle, unless you're getting a whole lot of support. But rarely do people get that consistently. Throw in caring for your mother in law plus recovery from injury? I, I can't imagine how difficult that was.

: 22:21

Yeah. And we decided to move down to Tasmania, you know, away from your family support and had no support. Yeah. So with with two kids under the age of three.

Unknown Speaker: 22:34

It got to a point where I Yeah, because I couldn't take it anymore. And I you know, reflect back on this day quite a lot.

: 22:44

We moved down to Tasmania, we basically sold everything in what we could and just basically picked up the kids on a plane and flew down here. We didn't realize at the time that Tasmania rental, so you had to have a good credit rating. With obviously, our history that we've just gone through our credit rating was shot through the roof of it. And so we moved down here thinking, oh, yeah, we just need a good rental history, that's all well ended up meaning that we're actually homeless for three months living out of a Caribbean park for three months. Whoa. And so we finally got a place that we could live, you move into that they accept us and we moved into. But um, so yeah, this about six months after leaving down Tasmania, I felt like my marriage was on the rocks. My career was gone. You know, I was feeling hopeless as a father edge of bankruptcy. And I was very, I was very angry individual to be around at the time. And, you know, I'm not proud to admit it. But my poor wife, Sarah probably verbally abused her quite a few times. And got to the point where I just wanted to finish it. And so I grabbed a big handful of, you know, the pain meds and everything, like I was on and bottle of vodka. And I was just gonna take a lot and, you know, finish it, and my two year old son at the time, and this was about midnight. Whatever reason, he got up and he came out looking for mom and dad, and he found me in the bathroom, bawling my eyes out to just, you know, just finished it and he comes up. He said, Deb, what's

Unknown Speaker: 24:14

wrong? What do you what are you doing?

: 24:18

I just burst in a blubbering mess. And I was, you know, I just covered him for the rest of the night. And he basically saved me. He

Ian Hawkins: 24:27

just bumps all through that, like, I've, I've experienced that myself. Kids just seem to have a innate sense of when to show up. And why. That's incredible, mate. Have you had a conversation with him?

Unknown Speaker: 24:47

No. He's now 11.

Ian Hawkins: 24:49

I probably shouldn't buy that. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Maybe you're Yeah, I guess it just depends on his personality, but mate Oh, wow. So do you tell you wife in the morning after that? Or like, did you keep that to yourself for a while?

: 25:09

I kept it for myself for a little bit. Probably wasn't probably about probably four or five months until I actually did share with her the full story she knew some was going on. Yeah. But yeah, it was. It's funny, though, like,

: 25:23

a week prior to that. My wife is, you know, Sarah's been grown up as a Catholic. And she's gone for arts and nuns. And so God's always been part of her life away prior to that, you know, she's she's doing everything that she can to try and save your marriage and save me. And she's just basically sitting shattered on a unit God in your life. So took me along to a Catholic church, and I sat through half a half a sermon on a Sunday. And then I basically got up and I acted like a three year old kid and throw your hands up in the air. And I said, I've had enough of this shit and walked out, you know, a few other curse words. But it's funny, you know, because after I that episode of you trying to kill myself, it was only two weeks later, that I basically, you know, I thought, right? Well, I've tried everything that the world has to offer. There's got to be another way. And the opportunity was presented to me to meet Tim O'Neil, who's now our pastor of our church. And basically, yeah, he invited us along to a, a, a table, a family feast, that they'll having a church at the table that night. And I came along to the long table family feast and just saw the joy and peace and love on people's faces at around the table there. And I just thought to myself, well, this is what's missing in my life. I need this. And so that's Tim and Tim introduced, invited me to come along to church next Sunday. And I thought, Well, I think Sara almost fell over and find it because I said, Yes, let's good. Had a couple of conversations, went to church a couple of times, and then I just walked up to Tim and I said, I've got no idea who this Jesus filler is. You know, I've been sheltered from it all my whole life. I've tried everything that the world has to offer. But I'm open to exploring. You know what Christianity is all about? Can you can you teach me can you show me? And Tim's just gone? Yeah, of course. So we met up for coffee on a weekly basis and basically started to disciple me went through some Bible discovery stories and three months into that journey, I've given my life to Jesus, and I've gotten baptized. Six months into that I'm into, I'm on a mission field in India. Okay. Indiana mission 18 months into that I'm doing a two year internship doing my Bible studies trying to become a church planter. On having been come church by since then. But I that's what I was doing. I was I had my heart set on doing that. Life had other plans. But yeah. So I look at that, you know, that that pivotal moment in my life. You know, before God was, I was bankrupt, almost bankrupt. I was on the edge of divorce. I was very angry or suicidal. You know, and then I had that pivotal moment. And now I look at my life. It's full of joy full of love full abundance. It's just complete polar opposites. Wonder how I Ever wonder how I ever used to do it without it.

Ian Hawkins: 28:22

Yeah. And also drawn to, like, your wife must be a patient and extremely strong woman. Yeah.

: 28:32

Yeah. Very, very grateful for Sarah. I don't know how she puts out for me sometimes. Very, very forgiving. Very forgiving. And I think that allows she's always the saw something in me that the I didn't see myself and yeah, it's her love and it's her patience and her forgiveness. It's I'll bring that out.

Ian Hawkins: 28:55

That's awesome. We must be doing something right because I keep hanging around. Right? That's right.

: 28:59

The amount of times I've tried to push her away I'm very grateful. I'm very grateful that she dug her heels in and now she's

Ian Hawkins: 29:09

do you look back at that part of the journey and like, like having that moment with your young fellow and then does it like that have you reflecting on your own childhood? Yeah. And you mentioned the you know, feeling different at school and but was there other sort of stuff there that like so for? For my My example is I often had a real disconnect with my dad through no fault of his or mine, just very different people are more extroverted, he's more introverted and not really finding away and a lot of my journey was like going back to that of like, okay, well. There was a whole lot of stuff that I couldn't make sense of as a kid, but now it's time to do it now.

: 29:57

Yeah, I can totally relate right later. I totally relate to that. Yeah, once again, you know, a lot of my father and he did nothing wrong. And it's just the way that he was brought up. And I think it was might have been a generational thing too that I got to the age of nine and, and I wasn't allowed to, you know, give my father a hug or kiss him or anything like that anymore. It's basically we don't do that night we shake hands. Yeah. So this was dig about. So I was starved of that love very early on. And it's almost dead worked really, really hard. Like he made sure we had a roof over our head and food on our table and, and that was the way that he showed his love for us kids. And I totally get that now. But back then it was like all I would have given up all of the horses all of the everything that we had just spent more quality time with him and to be seen by him. So it's almost like the pendulum swing, right? So goes from one extreme to the next. So now that I make sure that I work from home, I'm grateful that I get to do that. I am you know, when my kids, I pick my kids up, I drop my kids off to school, I pick them up on a daily basis. I my first conversation when they get in the car was okay, so how was your day? What was the highlight of your day? What did you learn what was challenging you those are I'm I know, my kids know that they can come to me and talk to me about just about anything. And it's through that, that I now have identified what you know, so God's funny in the way he works, right? So I've gone from working on the horses, I've gone through, you know, my, my childhood and, and having, you know, that strained connection with my father. I've gone through having to learn how to provide for my family by working out how to make money online. And all of that's led up to you know, I've only just turned 40 This year, but I really I found that I found my true purpose in life now. And my purpose here is I've actually got my statement here that I've got up here on the wall. So my superpower is to help workaholic dads to transform into dad printers making $10,000 per month online, so they can become the fun holiday dad feel bad dad jokes. Of course, man can men and less my purpose that's what I do.

Ian Hawkins: 32:12

I love that. I imagine many from our generation with similar experiences where holidays was often when we got the most out of parents. Yeah, so if you can be home

: 32:28

you know, we don't really remember what we got for Christmas five years ago. But we remember all those memories that we make with our family right so if I reflect back on my childhood is exactly that, you know, the timing was snow skiing the time went to the beach. You know, they're my most fondest memories as a kid

Unknown Speaker: 32:44

lost with us a lifetime.

Ian Hawkins: 32:46

Yeah. So being able to help other dads to be able to do that on not just a part time basis, but but on a regular basis may inspiring Yeah, like

: 32:57

Gone are the days where we need to bust their guts off and be laborers and worked so freaking hard and not be there for our kids. You know there there are ways where we can work smarter not harder now. I think I've had that in my own journey to be able to pioneer and lead that way to be able to show others that it is possible. Love it

Ian Hawkins: 33:24

you mentioned throughout the story how you just seem to be the one who was falling into those leadership roles. Is is leadership and guiding others just something that has come naturally or the something you've picked up once you got into your working stage life.

Unknown Speaker: 33:45

It's always sort of been natural, but I've had to

: 33:50

I've had to hone it. I've had to strengthen it I've had to become wiser. Like I went to cadets Army Cadets as a kid and you know, rose up through the ranks, you know through that pretty quickly. Every every job every sort of, you know, thing I was employed at I was never just a laborer, I was always either middle management or above. You know, I always sort of rose up through the ranks pretty quickly. And I've had to learn, you know, how to temper that and strengthen that and become wiser in that space.

Ian Hawkins: 34:24

Okay, describe to me the temporary What Why did you find you needed to temper what what were you doing that you were being over over the bearing or more than you thought you needed to be?

: 34:35

Probably a bit egotistical, probably a bit arrogant. And, you know, yeah.

Unknown Speaker: 34:44

Learned how to temper that

Ian Hawkins: 34:46

sort of my way or the highway sort of thing or like what do you mean by

: 34:49

Yeah, in my early days, yes. You know, not not, not my patient, not flexible, sort of rigid yet very rigid my way of the highway, but that was my upbringing. Right. So that was my father's.

Ian Hawkins: 35:02

Yeah. I don't know how much you've done on understanding what the body tells you to do, but tells you, but you may not be surprised to hear that the neck is all about flexibility.

Unknown Speaker: 35:17

Now wasn't that but I find that very funny.

Ian Hawkins: 35:22

Funny now wouldn't have been if I told you at the time.

Unknown Speaker: 35:26

The other or probably didn't.

Ian Hawkins: 35:30

Yeah. Yeah. So. So it is funny. Looking back, it's also like, life just throws us these messages. And I don't know if you've heard the one about the feather the brake the truck. But if you don't kind of pay attention to the tickle that you get from God, or the universe, or however you want to look at it, then you'll get a break. Which is that something that hits you in the face? And if not, you get the truck or a horse jumping on your head.

: 35:59

That's it. Yeah. Now I very much I understand that now, after I've read a few books around that topic. But once again, and I like, you know, 120 I just wanted to have fun when I was 20. I want to drink too much smoke too much.

Ian Hawkins: 36:14

Yeah, I think many, many will. I know I can relate to that. And many of the listeners will be able to relate to that, too. It's like a breaking free from all of that childhood stuff. Particularly. I haven't met any or maybe not any, but not many people who their teen years were just wonderful. Everyone's had their different challenges trying to fit in. And, you know, well, that doesn't seem to make sense when you're that age. So the natural reaction is to break loose from that, in the years when you've got the resources.

: 36:45

And, and to make it a bit harder for myself, I left home with 15.

Ian Hawkins: 36:52

Was that just to get away from dad or so it was,

Unknown Speaker: 36:56

it was a bit of both.

: 36:58

But I were we were up at Kara, Central New South Wales, there wasn't that many opportunities for employment, like there was a town of about 8000 population. So Bathurst is probably the next biggest closest city to care. So I moved to lift I'm at 15 and when I lived in one that unpop for six months, and I started my apprenticeship as as a cabinet maker there sort of for a while because being bullied as a kid at school, I wanted to leave school early the deal was like I get a trade. So I went and got a trade but then as soon as I done my trade I wanted I want to do but I wanted to do which was go work for horses. Yeah.

Ian Hawkins: 37:36

Do you still have a an affection for horses now?

: 37:40

Yes, no. I love you know, I love to be able to write and just go and do that sort of thing. But it became you know, towards 26 and 27, it became just work. Like I just it was it was hard work hard. yakka. So

Ian Hawkins: 37:58

because, because I don't know how much you've seen about the equine therapy, but I don't have a great understanding. But I do know that the theory is that no creature mirrors back our own stuff more powerfully than a horse. Yeah, so be given this as a as an area that you have been a professional.

: 38:20

You're very true, like I am. I've actually seen studies coming out that like horses have got, you know, like heavier DISC profile than before. So different types that actually they actually are using horses to be able to describe that to people as well. And so horses fall into one of the four categories and disappointing and they have their own personalities but they're they're very much a mirror you know a lot if you will if and that's why I say like if you're feeling nervous or fearful when you're riding a horse they just expand that 10 times over, they feel nervous they feel fearful

Ian Hawkins: 38:57

we just have the accidents happen so so given you've done that 100 times doesn't sound like you would have been fearful but Were there other people there in that situation that that were which is part of why your instincts were saying you needed to be in a different position than usual.

: 39:11

It was definitely heightened. Yeah, I'd say that probably was I have the I had failed experience with dealing with you know, with wild horses like I've worked on cattle stations up in north Cloncurry they're breaking in basically station horses, you know, they've raised in been raised wild like wild brumbies. So you have had that experience I could just you can just sense it and a horse walks in and they are a tight rubber band waiting to explode.

Ian Hawkins: 39:43

So you fast forward now you've come out the other side and you said you got into sales and then was Was that something that there was always like we just naturally good at

: 39:56

I think when I reflect back on my childhood, I always wanted to get into sales. I remember saying to my parents way back when I was about 12, that I wanted to get into sales. And they laughed at me. And I said, you'd never be any good at that. And that sort of really stuck with me. And so that's why I did went into sales early on. But you know, I've, I've always had the gift of the gab being able to talk underwater with a mouthful of marbles. I'm not shy, you know, reach out to people and been able to talk to anybody, and everybody. So, I think that's come from, from my years of being bullied and I've learned how to actually reach out to complete strangers and make relationships with people and and then yeah, I don't know, I actually had a timeshare presentation when I was introduced to sales and we went through the timeshare presentation at the end of the boat Turner and said to me said you'd be good at sales you ever thought of doing it? So actually, yeah, sort of have like a job. My initial sales introduction was selling timeshare. So yeah, I did that for six months. And then I realized that timeshare was not probably the right thing to be selling. So I got out of that. And I went and went found a job with Woolworths selling the ball was credit card, walking up to complete strangers in the middle of Woolworths and just signing him up for the credit card. I was very, very successful at very early on, I just just coachable and just you know, just did what everybody told me to do and and then 12 months into that I was the senior recruiter for the whole of Brisbane. So I was teaching about 300 people how to sell these waters credit cards, so I just didn't naturally find myself in those roles where I'm with I'm happy to teach people how to do what I do. So with no experience and no training around how to do that, obviously and the just the I then sort of just by that I then when when when the sole power around Southeast Queensland and door knocking and and then I ended up finding my feet in the National College of Business in Brisbane. Actually a good mate of mine that you've actually interviewed here, Aaron Katzman blade, so catchy, and I used to work at National College of Business together. So that's where I'm at catchy and yeah, so I was the lead business development manager for Brisbane and the Gold Coast arena, and just basically pounding the pavement, you know, door knocking and just reaching out to everybody asking if they'd like to, you know, enroll to business coaching. Wow. So I learned a lot from the NCB around sales and team culture and leadership and, you know, very grateful for my time there.

Ian Hawkins: 42:45

You know, what's interesting, is that you, you talked about no experience and training now, maybe no formal experience in trading, but like, we've talked about purpose already. Yeah, to me, that just really what you described, there is a great sense of purpose. It's like helping other people have what you never did, right? So if you're being bullied and you're feeling isolated, you're walking onto the street, even when you weren't selling, trying to get a connection with people who who needed it, because you knew that they needed it, because you'd been in that other position, right? So yeah, to me, it just makes perfect sense now that you've been through this journey of then helping other people who, who are needing something who are needing someone to help them to feel they belong, and it's not really much different to what you're really

Unknown Speaker: 43:35

trying to get there. But yeah, I can understand where you come from.

Ian Hawkins: 43:38

Yeah, and, and the regular listeners have heard me talk about this before, it's like if you can find that thing that that you experienced, and and you never want anyone else to experience and you can go out and give that back to the world when you don't have to look too much further than that to find a deep sense of purpose. So

: 43:57

I know by just finding my purpose that I'm clear on now is everything becomes easier. You know, like creating content you know, that add value to that community is just becomes much easier because it's serving from the heart rather than trying to force things

Ian Hawkins: 44:12

I recommend it's it's, it's serving from everything it's serving from, from the heart from the mind from the soul, like we were given early everything and whether you're religious or not, it's like your whether you believe in a higher power or your highest power, that that's where you're gonna have the greatest impact. So yeah. So what was the biggest? What was the biggest positive impact that finding faith had on you and your life?

: 44:48

Good question. Just the love the community has given me the support as far as the law I no fault of my own in my own teens and 20s and whatnot, I sort of moved from job to job down to town so I never really had that connection to community. Whereas you know that we've stayed here in one system now for going on 10 years, longest I've ever lived anywhere. And you know, we've got a real strong connection to our, to our church community with some really strong good relationships there and friendships and even to the point the you know, some of them are considered as family. So, you know, and being the black sheep of the family and whatnot, a really a sort of really didn't have that growing up. And I suppose that's probably been the biggest positive impact. Yeah, I love my mum mums always been there in my corner. She's been my number one champion, but yeah. To be able to, yeah, I'd say loving community is probably the biggest positive impact.

Ian Hawkins: 45:50

No, I love that. How healthier pair parents dealt with this faith that you've discovered later in life, given the use of they were quite the opposite.

: 46:06

Well, mum sort of just went along for the ride. But that I think, would say they've now divorced three years ago. So been married for 36 years and then end up getting divorced. That's a story zone. But yeah, mom's always been very stoic, very supportive in anything that I've ever done in life. And, you know, she grew up her parents were, well, her father was an altar boys of things. She has ever had some sort of faith in her life. But obviously just kept that very sheltered and very closed off from from dad. Dad's, he was growing up as his parents of Mormons, so he had religion shoved down his throat. He rebelled. So I can understand why you know why he's so against it all. Yeah, it was very forced on him. But yeah, sort of, it's going from one extreme to the next. But yeah, so that's, they put another strain on your relationship, to be honest. It's like it's just another another strain. You know, we are two completely different people. He's very introverted, very sheltered, very, very private person. Whereas I'm completely the opposite to that.

Ian Hawkins: 47:18

Do you still seek and find ways to connect with

: 47:22

it? Yeah, every now and then I can. Yep. Yep. No, I always reach out.

: 47:29

Yeah, it's just it's, it's hard because my kids don't have you know, their grandfather in their life as much as they probably could have. Yeah.

Ian Hawkins: 47:39

I was just drawn there to a thought of your young fellas showing up at just the right time. Maybe, maybe you're doing that for your dad. Now, maybe you don't have to be there all the time. But maybe when you get there, to reach out that you're giving him what he needs at the time. And maybe at some point, he'll be ready to.

: 48:00

Yeah, I hope so. He's gone through his own sort of his own grief and his own battles at the moments his own demons. Yes, he's very closed off very depressed and very, very sheltered at the moment. So it's very, very closed off to a lot of things. But I hope one day that'll that'll change, but

Ian Hawkins: 48:19

you just got to keep sending him lower yesterday and then it's up to him. I have heard that when parents get divorced when you're an adult can be I have heard it described as being more challenging than when you're young. Now. I don't know how true that is. But like Did it have an impact for you? And if so how so?

Unknown Speaker: 48:46

Yeah, no, I definitely had an impact it just,

: 48:53

it just made me grow more distant. Like we mum sort of was the one that was forcing me and dad to get together once or twice a year and and now that they have that influence, I suppose this book would just be growing further and further apart. Yeah, you know, he hasn't seen obviously because he's a he's hurting or whatever it is his own God, but he hasn't rang my kids for their birthday for the last probably two years. Doesn't even ring to say, you know, a happy Christmas or Merry Christmas anymore. I got that. He's just unless I ring him to reach out to hear me. I don't hear for

Ian Hawkins: 49:32

Yeah, right. That must be hard. Yeah. Again, I did have an emotional impact. Yeah. Jeff, we've we've kind of digressed a long way from the physical injury. But how are you physically now? Like, how is you have any problems with your neck has it had any like sort of challenges that have come as a result of that? At that change in how your body is,

: 50:03

I'm 50 kilos overweight because every time I got to go exercise, I ended up aggravating the injury. And I've tried probably about eight times over the last 10 years to go and get fit. And I'm an officer, the only stories that are telling me aren't hidden, you know, law of attraction a bit and bring it on myself. But always, every time I gotta go do something that another thing happens. So there's probably some lessons that I need to learn around that one. But I had got myself to a stage my wife is a massage therapist. So massage was helping with the pet managing the pain and you know, drinking lots of water and eating right, and all that sort of thing to not feed the inflammation. Oh, yeah. sugar feeds information. I understand that now. But yeah, because I, I went through my own depressed journey and that around depression, and I ate very unhealthy and drank a lot of coke. And it was the things I've probably fed the information for a while and heightened the pain. But I've now come out of that, up until this Easter, I was off the pain meds all together for about two years, took me a two year journey to wean off him. I tried to go cold turkey and I just ended up in hospital because all the organs start shutting down because I was too reliant on him like, Oh, really, they're like this stuff that like is Lyrica. As long as it's just like, it's almost worse than heroin, I reckon. Addiction.

Ian Hawkins: 51:24

And so you you for the reaction that significantly that like they just like, Whoa, sorry, you've taken something that was we've got used to we're just gonna shut down.

: 51:33

Yeah. So yes, if your organs shutting down and whatnot, so in a very cyclical way. And then when doctors told me I went cold turkey, they got pretty angry at me, because I shouldn't have

Ian Hawkins: 51:45

done that. Well, you don't know what you don't know. Right? That's right. Yeah.

: 51:48

So I ended up saying that I went off anyways, so that we put a plan in place, and it took me two years to get off him. But just prior to Easter, this Easter, I ended up falling down the stairs. And so I ended up almost breaking my hip and ended up in hospital for six days over Easter. And what I ended up doing was I ended up badly bruising my my back and the hip area and whatnot ended up Pinching the sciatic nerve, not at the root, but sort of along the track there and, and, yeah, couldn't walk on that left leg for a few days. Because of that, so they they put me back on all the bloody pain meds and are sort of broke. You know, when they said I gotta go back on the payments are broke down in tears. So I would just, you know, fought so hard to get off from all that now. I'm back on.

Ian Hawkins: 52:33

So you know how to get off again, right?

: 52:36

Yeah. Been through that radio as soon as you want. Yeah. So it's almost up. Now. I've done that radio once I could do it again.

Ian Hawkins: 52:41

Yeah. And the more we go through things, the quicker we get at it. And then ultimately, something we've talked about a bit a fair bit in this conversation. I imagine at some point, you'll be helping other people with the same thing. Probably. Now, now you've you've done a lot of sales and and if you've got a network marketing, but it's definitely community marketing, right. Yeah, yeah. Do you find that you're attracting similar sort of people in and you're able to help them on their journey because you've got experience in different parts of your life?

: 53:19

Yeah, it's funny you say that you do attract like minded people. And it seems to be a wide mix of I'm attracting a lot of, you know, workaholic dads who want to transition out of their life, but I suppose a lot of my marketing is designed to attract those type of people. But also, I have, you know, one of my team players at the moment that's on your team is Trish. And Trisha is has cerebral palsy, she's in a wheelchair, and she's wanting to provide an extra income for her family. So her husband doesn't have to work so hard. So yeah, I'm finding I am attracting, you know, people with with health challenges that are looking for other ways to make money online to make money and provide for their families.

Ian Hawkins: 54:04

So good, and I'm sure you can attest to this, that how much job satisfaction comes when you're helping people through things that you've already been through before?

: 54:13

Yeah, well, I like to call one of my philosophies is to be the hero maker, not the hero. So I get more satisfaction when I see other people succeed than me and success.

Ian Hawkins: 54:24

Yeah, yeah. We talked about that when we were talking about the the hero's journey not from people trying to like force their own story down the throat but actually helping people to see that they're the hero. And I love that that's that's very much how you doing business?

: 54:42

With us is like where? You know where the shirt we're not, you know, Sir Edmund Hillary. He's the one who got nervous for climbing up Mount Everest, but it was always the person who's out there before him with the Sherpa. The Sherpa doesn't get any recognition.

Ian Hawkins: 54:55

Yeah, and the Sherpa probably been up there a few times too.

Tell me, Jeff, what's the message? If you if you get a soapbox to sort of share a message with the world, what would you share?

Unknown Speaker: 55:14

The Great question. Never give up.

: 55:19

Yeah, I find fail forward is one of the things that I like to say like we actually don't fail unless you actually do give up. We learn more from our, our mistakes and our failures than we do from our victories. You know, our victories only happen in life because of all the lessons that we learn along the way. So yeah, there is no such thing as an overnight success. But you know, if you keep at it, it feels like an overnight success sometimes.

Ian Hawkins: 55:43

Yeah, yeah. It will said, Now, where can people find out more about what you do now? And if they're looking and if they're workaholics and they want to find some freedom? Where can they find out more about you, Jeff?

: 55:58

Yeah, great question that Facebook or LinkedIn are probably the best places I you know, I'm pretty active on Facebook most days. That's where I like to reach out to people and communicate what's the thing so yeah, my Facebook username is Jeffrey dot Ross 12 2012

Ian Hawkins: 56:18

We'll get you all make sure you link there in the show notes so that people can follow it as well. And you can check you out. And

: 56:25

there are other Jeffrey Ross is out there. The most famous one is a Canadian comedian. That's not me.

Ian Hawkins: 56:33

Little bit different.

Unknown Speaker: 56:36

Yeah, I'm a stand up comedian.

Ian Hawkins: 56:43

I love that. You've integrated all of these elements through your life and including travel, which is, you know, been president was the thing that sort of got you into sales. That's the thing that you'd kind of thought you were going to do from a young age. Again, those those childhood memories that taking other people back to that's magic.

: 57:02

Yeah, I and I've been involved in a few other different companies with network marketing industry in the past, but never really had the success that I'm having now. And I feel like that's because I truly believe in our in our myself and I believe in our product. You know, you gotta have those two key beliefs to be able to sell anything right

Ian Hawkins: 57:19

100% And anyone who's in sales listening to that is like, I look back when early stages of business when I was always like, I reckon I'd be so much better at selling other people's stuff. And that was just that will because ultimately because of my lack of belief, my own stuff, but you got to when you when you like you said when you've got the belief, and then you realize no matter what you're selling, that you you're the person you're selling, right then you can sell anything.

: 57:47

People buy you first before they'll listen to you and have whatever solution you have.

Ian Hawkins: 57:51

Yeah. 100% Jeff, great chat. Thank you so much for sharing your story and the inspiring moments of overcoming setbacks again and again. I appreciate it. My My absolute pleasure.

I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Grief Code podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Please share it with a friend or family member that you know would benefit from hearing it too. If you are truly ready to heal your unresolved or unknown grief, let's chat, email me at info at E and Hawkins coaching.com. You can also stay connected with me by joining the Grief Code community at Ian Hawkins coaching.com forward slash The Grief Code and remember, so that I can help even more people to heal. Please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform