From Mourning To Light with Sadie Beyl

Ian Hawkins 0:02

Are you ready, ready to release internal pain to find confidence, clarity and direction for your future, to live a life of meaning, fulfillment and contribution to trust your intuition again, but something's been holding you back. You've come to the right place. Welcome. I'm a Ian Hawkins, the host and founder of The Grief Code podcast. Together, let's heal your unresolved or unknown grief by unlocking your grief code. As you tune into each episode, you will receive insight into your own grief, how to eliminate it and what to do next. Before we start by one request. If any new insights or awareness land with you during this episode, please send me an email at info at the Ian Hawkins coaching.com. And let me know what you found. I know the power of this word, I love to hear the impact these conversations have. Okay, let's get into it.

Well, what a story. Sadie bale grew up with alcoholic parents and really had to learn to fend for herself in so many ways from a young age. But what she said she always felt unsafe. So she made pacts with herself in her life, to change that, and to have the most wonderful life. And she created that with a husband. Only for him to have a heart attack and then come back from come back from the dead once and then go on the journey of then dealing with losing him again, in a way where it's almost like she knew that it was coming. A roller coaster of emotions in this one. But also some incredible wisdom and guidance from someone who also works in the space of grief knows what it's like to experience it. And not only come out the other side, but help other people through their journey as well. Enjoy Sadie bale. Hi, everyone, and welcome to this week's guest Sadie Bale, Sadie, how are you?

Unknown Speaker 2:11

I'm good. Thanks. How are you?

Ian Hawkins 2:14

Going? Well, thank you. Always good to chat to another person working in the space of grief. And we were just talking before we jumped on about the sort of work you do. We'll come to that later in the conversation, but few big elements of your life. And if one of the first things you mentioned was in your words, you had a shared childhood. Both parents alcoholic, tell us a little bit about that experience. And you shared how you'd never felt safe. That must have been extremely difficult to navigate as a young child.

Unknown Speaker 2:54

Well, shifts is maybe a bit of a strong way to describe it, but it had its moments. Yeah. And as you can imagine, yeah, that and when you are a child, you're very forgiving. And you. You don't really blame others easily. So, so kind of a thought that's how life is initially.

Ian Hawkins 3:15

Yeah. So at the time, at the time, it was okay, but it's on reflection that you you see for what it is.

Unknown Speaker 3:22

Well, as I grew older, I realized that my friends houses of wasn't like that. So they weren't constant parties. And I say alcohol, there was also drugs involved. My father was a musician, and he he constantly had his music musician friends over so life was one big party. And I think neglect, I wasn't abused, but I was neglected, so neglected in the way that mealtimes were in regular. I'd be sent off to school without packed lunch and without having had breakfast. So I really wanted to learn to play tennis, for example. And by three o'clock in the afternoon, I was fainting on the tennis court, because I hadn't eaten the thing the whole day. Wow. So so that was how it was. And I remember the one day being so hungry, and just being too shy to ask somebody to lend me some money. I think it was five o'clock in the afternoon. And I hadn't eaten the whole day. And I was just too shy to ask someone to lend me money so that I could buy something to eat. I remember that vividly. I remember being on the playground and children sharing their lunch with me. So that's what I mean by Nick.

Ian Hawkins 4:50

Yeah, well, isn't it great that kids will just band together and find a way to help out pay that often gets lost when people get older. So that that food journey and the neglect around that did it cause any? Did that part of it cause any issues for you around food specifically or, or that lack sort of feeling that you would have had from that experience?

Unknown Speaker 5:23

I've done a lot of work on myself since then. And the food issue has come up a lot. But it was more around forgiveness, I needed to forgive my parents. And but what came up new was a fear of becoming an alcoholic. That was a big fear.

Ian Hawkins 5:44

Yeah, I bet. When did that start coming into your mind?

Unknown Speaker 5:51

You know, when you're a teenager, and all your friends are pressuring you to try smoking, I tried drinking, and I just was, oh, I don't know if I want to do this. It took me a long time to try alcohol as a teenager. And I think I only got properly drunk once as a teenager. Maybe twice, actually, that was in my early 20s The second time, and it scared me. I just thought, Oh, I can't do this. I need to be careful. And I was worried that if a very big, life shattering event would happen to me, and the worst thing I could think of was my sister might die. So I thought if my sister dies, will I become an alcoholic? Yeah. Wow.

Ian Hawkins 6:44

Have you spoken to your sister much about that childhood experience and the impact for both of you?

Unknown Speaker 6:55

We, I think in our late 20s, we got together we just connected on that level and have that talk. And it's so interesting how we remembered it. She had such a different memory to me. Really, I realized, yes, she was coming at it from a different perspective. And we had different coping mechanisms. So my parents route a lot. They argued constantly because money was always an issue. And I remember as a teenager, realizing that I could just fall asleep. If I wanted to, if I said, if I put my head on the pillow and I say brightly sleep, I'd be out immediately. Yeah. And, and my sister kind of pointed a finger at me. And she said, I can't believe you slept through it all. That's when I realized my coping mechanism was to fall asleep as quickly as possible. So I didn't have to hear the round.

Ian Hawkins 8:02

Yeah. Wow. And what did she How did she cope with it? What did she do?

Unknown Speaker 8:06

She She was amazed I could sleep at all. She had many, many late late nights where she couldn't sleep, where they kept her awake. Yeah, that she was resentful of me that I could see through.

Ian Hawkins 8:22

Isn't that amazing? We grow up with siblings and we go through these experiences where we're both fair. But we we come out of it completely different view of it. And and then it drives a wedge between you two when really as children though, that was none of your faults. Have you been able to make peace with that with her?

Unknown Speaker 8:49

That part, yes. But there's another part to it. We How'd I describe this? I was the oldest and kind of a goody two shoes. Because I took on the role of adults. We my parents weren't being responsible. So I made sure my sister had breakfast in the mornings as soon as I was of age that I could do that. And I made sure we have food to take to school with us once I was old enough. And so I just took over that role. And, and so my mom would always show me as the shining example. And here's the black sheep. And that caused more friction. Which Yeah, to this day, she brings up an argument.

Ian Hawkins 9:45

My bet would be so hard from a young age you becoming the mother figure to her in many ways. And of course when you're supposed to be the sister that's going to naturally cause some resent Women's through that so at least you've done your best to this point to to make peace with it with her. Because all you can do right is just find a way to move forward together.

Unknown Speaker: 10:12

Yeah, I've been quite fortunate enough. I've always made pacts with myself throughout my life. And I've only realized this right now talking to you. And the first pact I made with myself was I was going to get an education so that I could support ourselves and get away from my parents as quickly as possible and make the best laughs I could. And so I did, I went on and became an architect.

Ian Hawkins: 10:44

Wow. Now, you said you made another pact with yourself. Because you had that experience with your parents. And you made a practice for yourself on how your life wanted to turn out. Tell us a bit about that?

Unknown Speaker: 10:58

Well, I just decided, because the childhood had been that I was going to choose a partner, who my dad cheated on my mom, I left. So I was gonna choose a partner who would never cheat on me. And I was determined that I was going to have a wonderful life in my adulthood, because I was in control. And so I made my beautiful husband poor. And I studied architecture. And my very first job, I met him there. And we both had some ideas about what we wanted to do. We wanted to travel, we wanted to have fun, we wanted to have an adventure. We both didn't want children. And so we built a really wonderful life, the two of us. And I have to say I did have a good time.

Ian Hawkins: 11:56

Did you make a decision, like for you personally around children because of the experience you've had inherited in your childhood?

Unknown Speaker: 12:03

That's a great question in and one I asked myself often. And I don't really know the honest answer to that. I've never gotten to the bottom of it. But I had a pregnancy scare when I was in when I was 30 or 31. And, and I kind of cheated as fate. I thought, well, if I am I am and you know, it'll be it'll be what it will be. But then a little later on, I had another pregnancy scare. And I didn't want to have a child. And I, I contemplated terminating if if I was pregnant turned out, I wasn't in the end. But, but that feeling was just confirmation for me that I don't want a child. And I don't really, I mean, I'm sure it's partly down to my parents, because I resented them so much in I really did at one stage. I mean, I had to go through a whole path of forgiveness to to come through and be okay with myself. And I just couldn't bear the thought of my children resenting me.

Ian Hawkins: 13:28

Because you knew that pain all too well.

Unknown Speaker: 13:31

And, and I, I mean, I didn't know that there was a possibility that they might resent me, but I didn't want to transmit. Yeah.

Ian Hawkins: 13:42

Like I can't begin to understand, but I can see how that would be the case, like having gone through what you went through. So Sadie, you're you've built this wonderful life. And you've then had this moment with your husband, getting ill. Can you share a bit about that, that moment? And then how that changed both of your lives so dramatically?

Unknown Speaker: 14:10

Yes, well, Paul was very fit. In fact, we both were we both ran, we're both runners. He but for some reason, I wasn't enjoying running as much as he was in that period. So he signed up for a half marathon. And I didn't sign up for this particular one. And I was doing yoga on my deck. And my phone rang and there was somebody I didn't know on the other line saying, Are you the next of kin of Paul bear? And, and I said, you can't you can't say that Tommy if he's alive. If you said I can't tell you, I can't say anything. You're going to have to come to the hospital and pull it out. motorcyclists and he taken our own car to, to the race. So I had my motorbike, and he had his motorbike and we shared the car. So I said to the guy, you need to tell me if he's okay, because I have to jump on a motorbike now, to come to the hospital. And I don't want to ride my motorbike in a state. I don't think that's a good idea. And he said to me, get your neighbor to bring you. So we get to the hospital, and he'd had a cardiac arrest while he was running the marathon. But the miracle is he was surrounded by four doctors with the seller. Wow. And so you dropped like a stone, the doctors were there, they performed CPR. In fact, I'm still in touch with one of the doctors and that's an incredible story. Just remind me to get to that. Because the miracles just never stop. So the miracle was they were the four doctors, they revived him. The miracle is he was at a race because we lived in a remote part of Cape Town called Simon's town. So Paul used to do these long training runs, like into the wilderness where there is no buddy. So how did it happen there? I mean, no one would have revived him. So okay, so that he's on a race, the ambulances are available. He gets taken to the top cardio cardiac hospital in the world called the Christian Barnard hospital. And Christian Barnard is the first surgeon who performed an a heart transplant. Wow. Cool is in like the best hands all around. Yeah. And he survives his heart attack or cardiac arrest, I suppose, as you would call it any gets pneumonia. And they will. He was in hospital for a long time. They wait for him to recover from pneumonia. And they put a cardiac device in his heart. So that should his heart malfunction. Again, it was an electrical malfunction. This device will kick start his heart again. So he'll be okay. Yeah. And so he comes home. And we're both architects we have our own, we have our architectural practice together. And, and Paul's very quiet after this whole experience, because he died and came back. He's not really talking about his near death experience. In fact, he is. He almost looks like he's not even back properly. If that makes sense. Yeah. So one, one day I sat him down, I say to him, Listen, you were dead. You were dead. There's no ways beating around the bush. I said, What do you want to do with your one wild and precious life? What do you I'll support you in whatever you decide, you told me? Yeah, we bought a view, a beautiful holiday home in Italy. And we'd come here on a motorcycle tour with our friends. And he said to me, Sadie, I'd like to guide Motorcycle tours in Italy. I'd like to start a motorcycle karting tour company. So I said, Well, let's do it, then what are we waiting for? So we closed our practice, we told the clients, we had a very difficult plan. So I just said to me, you know, I'm gonna take it to the stage and I'll hand you over to somebody else. And then we just closed all the other projects, we didn't take on any more work. And we started to pick up our house and sell our things because we already had a house it literally fully stopped. So it didn't make sense to duplicate.

Ian Hawkins: 18:47

Yeah. Before we move to the next part of the story, you're honest ask about that experience for you when you get that news. And they're not telling you whether he's okay or not. Like where did your mind go? Like, is it what did it just go numb? Or is it racing and thinking about all the different possibilities or like the must have been horrific?

Unknown Speaker: 19:17

Part of me was panicking. Yeah. But there was the solid core within me that just wisely knew that it was all going to be okay. Okay,

Ian Hawkins: 19:31

well, I did get goosebumps when you were telling that whole part of the story so that doesn't surprise me.

Unknown Speaker: 19:37

And, and even though I felt panicked, I felt detached from a panic as if it was happening outside of me. And I felt within me that it's going to be okay doesn't make things.

Ian Hawkins: 20:00

Yeah. And it brings up a great thing about grief is it can be two things. It can be really, really sad. But also they can be joyful moments, we can be in full panic and fear, but also have a different feeling playing out at the same time whether it's a knowing or, or a calm. Yeah, it does make sense. And I think most people can relate to those experiences.

Unknown Speaker: 20:28

I knew he wasn't going to die, then I knew he wasn't. I don't know how. And when I walked into the room where he was, he was lying on the table, totally inanimate, as if he was dead. He was just in an induced coma. And I burst into tears, but not I burst into tears because his eyes were closed, and he wasn't speaking. And I realized that nobody in the room, I mean, all the nurses and the doctors in the emergency staff knew him or knew who he was, or they didn't know that this was Paul, because they hadn't spoken to him. And he was inanimate. And and that's all me with sadness. Like, are they don't know who he is. Yeah. Does does that. I mean, I'm only you're asking me questions I hadn't even asked myself.

Ian Hawkins: 21:32

Yeah. Well, I think we're not sure how we're going to react in any of those situations. But that's when those parts of us that are so important to us really come to the surface. And, and it's you're not wanting for people to feel alone or not acknowledge, which I guess has got a lot to do with you. The childhood that you described. For me when my dad was like, in his last minutes, I was concerned about us disturbing the other people in the room who may have been about to lose their family member or if they're really sick, or, like that's to me looking back. That's crazy. But that's all I knew how to cope with at the time, because my default was to look after everyone. So I completely understand how that there would be something going on there that perhaps for some people it doesn't make sense of, but it doesn't mean it's not not 100% true and valid for you because it was a reflection of what you've experienced. Does that make sense?

Unknown Speaker: 22:43

I remember the other thought was they don't know how beautiful pool is. Yeah, because they have not having an animated experience with them. Yeah.

Ian Hawkins: 22:59

I guess so everything that comes to mind is all of the things that you value so highly and Paul would have would have been really all coming to the surface all at once like a tsunami. So he, he survives, and then you make those plans to move to Italy and then tell us what happened from then Sadie.

Unknown Speaker: 23:28

I'm gonna jump forward. No, okay. I won't spoil the story. Okay, so just remind me about the medium in. Because that because that ties back to this moment. Okay. So we pack everything, we ready to go to Italy, we planning how we've got people booked for the first tour. We've set up the second tour, we've got people interested and wanting to book for the second tour. So we're so excited. This is a call from the university men to be doing this. But the issue is Paul, South African, and he can't automatically go and live in Italy. So we go to the embassy and we have a scary moment where we don't think he can get a visa to stay. And then we speak to the beautiful ladies in the embassy and at that time who could speak a little bit of Italian better than me certain priceless socks off them and they just adored him. And he looked Italian so so they were bending over backwards to try and accommodate us and they said well because I'm British. I could go apply to stay. Brexit hadn't happened yet. And then he could apply after that as a family member to someone who has permission to stay in it. So they found way around it good on them and a way that we hadn't read about on the internet so, so that was a bit of a stress. And then the last stress was we were in so my back which was quite old, and we were going to buy a new motorbike in Italy for me and but he had a beautiful MV Agusta are beautiful Makka Pakka triple. And he the engineers are triples beautiful. And he decided to keep the motorbike and once we were settled in Italy seen from the back. So we decided to to to have friends farm in Wellington, which is a town in the widens, we lived on the coast. So it was about a trails drive to get there. And Paul would take his motorbike I would follow in the car, we dropped the bike off, we'd have dinner together somewhere in Wellington, and then we would come home. So that day, I just couldn't focus. I couldn't move. We're busy packing our things. We had a few days to go and we really thing and I just couldn't focus. That's it. Um, it's kind of coffee. So I went downstairs and I made us coffee. And then I made us some lunch and then we just check that crib does urgent packing to do but neither of us felt. So we just had a really relaxed day just chatting. And then Paul said, you know we better go now. So I said, Oh, okay, so put on all his motorbike. Yeah. And I realized I hadn't hugged him or kissed them. So I went and gave him a hug and his jacket. And then I realized I'm feeling so out of sorts today. I don't even know which road we're taking to get to Wellington. So as he was about to get on his motorbike I found out of the car and I ran over to him and asked him faves. Which way are we going just remind me again and he said, Sadie we've gotten there. 100 times. That's it. I can't think of which road to take. And he said, we take Baden Powell drive and then we go return and I went, Oh, okay, I've got it. He said, I'm going to go in for petrol in first because the back was empty. And he said, I'll see you later. And I love you. I love you. Like we always said that to each other. You count on his motorbike. I drove off. He passed me on Baden Powell drive against the sea. And I waved at him and he waved and he just appeared because he could quickly read through the cars and get ahead. And I started crying. And I cry, like, heartbroken. And I thought that's really strange. I'm not that sad to leave Cape Town. I mean, I'm really excited to go live in Italy. And why am I crying? Like a good 20 minutes, I just cry. I couldn't figure it off. And then I turned inland. And I saw a motorbike accident on a bike storm. And then I realized it was pulls back. And I pulled over quickly. And I jumped out of my car. And you think I'd run over to him or try CPR? or something. But no, what did I do? I started running around in circles going, oh my god, oh my god. Oh my god. Just oh my god, oh my god for about a minute, I think or I don't know, Tom kind of gets elastic in those kinds of moments. Yeah. And then I noticed a man standing then he was had his head down and there was a white. We call him a bakkie. But it's a track basically. And he he was saying it's all my fault. It's all my fault. And I didn't know what he was saying why was saying it. And then I went over to Paul because I heard him take a deep breath in in like he been underwater for half an hour. And what has happened was is intracardiac device at kick started his heart because when I got a he was dead and and it kept him alive and woke him up. And he wanted to get up and I said to him, no, no, no, don't move and people were around us and somebody said don't worry. We've called the ambulance. It's on its way. So I just cradled his head in my lap and I just say to him, it's okay and you keep trying to get up and I kept pushing him down saying don't move don't move the eminence was coming. And then I just kept talking to him soothingly like Child was coming in, and the ambulance came. And two hospitals later, because they took him to the wrong hospital first. The young intern came out and said his internal wounds were too severe and he didn't make it.

Ian Hawkins: 30:20

Not Wow. I must have

Unknown Speaker: 30:25

stopped breathing in. And I didn't realize that stopped breathing until my friend who, eventually through phone calls and friends of friends and people that come to find us at the hospital. And this is like, he died at 23 minutes past three in the morning. So there was one solitary stoic friend who was still by my side, my beautiful friend and he put his arms around me and he said, Read Sadie, breathe. And you said it to me many many times. Because I would breathe in and then I would stop breathing again. Yeah

Ian Hawkins: 31:12

I'm even feeling that tightness now. It's It's amazing, isn't it? How are those moments just take us straight back to

you Katie, keep going. Have you made sense of the, the day you'd had when, like, what you're describing to me is almost like you already knew. Part of you already knew.

Unknown Speaker: 31:49

Yeah. I mean, this was the best part of the story in my friend took him took me home with him to his house, where my best friend you know, he's my best friend's husband and they both were very, very good friends of Poland. So I went back with him to the house and I went to bed nothing asleep immediately. I must have been exhausted. Yeah, but and I woke up the next morning and as I was waking up, I heard the audible thunk of a coffee cup next to my head, you know, and somebody thanked down a coffee cup onto the side table but deliberately with like noise and I heard Paul's voice call my name and he said said and that's how you woke me up every single morning

Unknown Speaker: 32:53

coffee coffee cup down to to wake me up. And you will call my name Sade. Did that every morning?

Ian Hawkins: 33:03

Wow. So just letting you know he was still there with you.

Unknown Speaker: 33:07

So my first morning without Paul was not with the ocean. Wow. Do you know how powerful that it's amazing. Yeah, that I wouldn't say healed me at all. But it went a long way to she giving me comfort in my grief. It's the best gift you could have given me. No, it's not the only one there are so many.

Ian Hawkins: 33:47

So good. So even in that extremely sad and traumatic moment is still having a moment of, of beauty within that. We are able to see that for being something so good at the time.

Unknown Speaker: 34:12

It was just so comforting. I knew I wasn't alone. Yeah. And and went on from that waking moment, through my grief knowing that Paul was close to me. I just had that knowing.

Ian Hawkins: 34:33

Yeah, you must have had some questions. Why though? You've just made these changes and created this really exciting life? And if he's there with you, yeah. Were you asking him why were you just asking the universe? Why like, just yourself. Why? Like, how did that all unfold for you?

Unknown Speaker: 35:01

When after you'd had the cardiac arrest and I was in the house alone and he was in the hospital and then he just had it I think was the next day. I remember just crying and thinking to myself if he does die, like I had a feeling you wouldn't but I just just thinking if he does die, what will I do? Will I be okay? And I searched really deep within myself and I knew that I would be and I thought, Oh, my sister lives in England. So I thought what I'll do is I'll just go to England for a bit and go and be with her and then I'll I'll see what I wanted to do after that, but I almost had a mini plan almost like I'll be okay, this was what I'll go and do so I gave myself like a plan in case if he does die, but I felt that he may not in fact I knew he wouldn't but I just thought what if so we did really die I can't say that I immediately had that plan because I was in too much shock I actually had PTSD because the accident keep replaying in my mind and so everyone said go and see a psychotherapist go see a therapist you need help blah blah blah. So if I go and it leaves me cold in because my grief was in my body It wasn't in my head so I couldn't talk about it. It just wasn't the way for me to deal with my grief was was talking about it so ran and ran and I felt like I was running in syrup it was so difficult. So I walked and ran in nature and popped into my head and gave me messages and the one day I was so distraught and he said to me Sadie it's okay one day you're going to come and join me you you it's not like you'll never see me again

Unknown Speaker: 37:28

and then I told you to remind we about some

Ian Hawkins: 37:31

things so nothing to do yet the media.

Unknown Speaker: 37:35

Okay, so the media and so we see the medium, because I have a sick why which was your question the why

Ian Hawkins: 37:43

this before after the psychotherapist,

Unknown Speaker: 37:46

after I saw the psychotherapist, the first well of few I think a month in I went to see the psychotherapist didn't really get her realized. So I ended up going for Reiki in. Yep. I went to see somebody for Reiki and I went to many, many sessions. And that's a whole different story. So then eventually, my friend My friend has just as Ricci says, I booked you an appointment with my psychic, go and see her she's a great medium, blah, blah, you can trust her. She's helped me with so many things sort of I go. And I've got this big why? And she said he had things he had to go to on the other side. So I'm thinking what things are important than staying with me and starting up his motorcycle guarding company, you know what, like, what things? So she said, No, she can't really tell me what things you know, it's not for me to know those things. I said, Well, that's not really helping. So she said after you'd had the cardiac arrest, and I sat him down and said to right, what do you want to do? She said, You helped him to dream again. He hadn't been dreaming. And she said, You gave him the gift of dreaming. So when he did go, he went much lighter. Because we're we're all here to raise our vibration and get to the highest level that we can, so that when we cross over, we we don't come back to repeat that. Yeah. And so so I've got him and got him over a certain hurdle. So that when he does come back, he doesn't have to repeat that cycle.

Ian Hawkins: 39:48

Beautiful.

Unknown Speaker: 39:49

And she said You You gave him that gift. And that's that's why he didn't die when you had the cardiac arrest because he hadn't gotten over that hurdle yet. Mm

Ian Hawkins: 40:00

hmm. And that was the mission for for that lifetime.

Unknown Speaker: 40:06

So the cardiac arrest was the catalyst for him to dream again so that he could get to this next level.

Ian Hawkins: 40:13

So, so what about that? I'm still intrigued by that, that knowing what it was. Did you question yourself afterwards if if, in hindsight, you can see that something wasn't right that day, and then he drives off and you straightaway start having tears like, like, knowing the story, it was like, oh, like you knew it was the last time you were ever going to see him? Like, how have you made sense of that? Have you asked, Could I have done something different? Could I have stopped it? All those sorts of things?

Unknown Speaker: 40:48

No, no, I've never I don't know why I am that these are that this is how I am I. When I look back, I went oh, that's why I was crying. And that's why we had that day together. Just drinking coffee and chatting and having lunch and packing, like beautiful just seem so unimportant to go back to both of us. So we just chatted and we just we really had a lovely day, sitting in the lounge. Talking being companionable and and I, when I got to the scene, there was the guy saying it's all my fault. It's all my fault. It came out afterwards that he had caused the accident. He had done a U turn with his track and pull it hitch into the side of it. But I took photographs at the scene and I looked at them afterwards. And they were no skid marks. So pull it slow right down before you hit the track. And he wasn't thrown, he was right at his motorcycle. So it couldn't have been growing fast. But he still hits at such a velocity or maybe in such a way that it did damaged his body internally that he couldn't survive. And his ankle was broken. And there was a he was damaged. I remember looking at him thinking, wow, there's a lot wrong here. But it can be fixed at the time in the hospital. Yeah. But when he did eventually pass, I mean, two things happened. I want you to stay with this body. Like I understand what a week is. I didn't want to leave. And the second thing that happened is we had to leave because it was an emergency hospital and they needed the room. And eventually, I just realized I can't actually hold the space anymore. And as we walked outside I said to my friend I just want to how like how the moon I just want to but I didn't I held it in because I had to phone people and let them know that phone his mom had to phone his brother

Ian Hawkins: 43:19

Wow, that must have been I mean, none of this is easy, but that must have been so hard to be able to have to have those conversations.

Unknown Speaker: 43:28

But as to gaze, the guy that caused the accident the very next day when I replayed it I just I accepted immediately that it was caused

Ian Hawkins: 43:46

yeah and to me that's something that I've had to come to a make peace with as well. It's like there's actually nothing that we could have done differently. It's some things are just meant to be and we can continue to stuck in the ruminations and thoughts but they don't actually help so well for you to be able to do that immediately and win a gift for that driver to be able to give that forgiveness. You mentioned the the when you went to the psychotherapist that the accident was playing in your mind like how long do they keep playing out in your mind that the scene after the accident they kept playing out? And how long did that keep going for?

Unknown Speaker: 44:45

It still comes back and it comes back unbidden. That's what he Yes.

Ian Hawkins: 44:55

Is it less, less painful now? I

Unknown Speaker: 45:04

know, it's, it's reminding me of the shock come through. And in that moment, when it comes to me, I feel that shock again. But it's not plaguing me, it just comes out of the blue. And then I feel the chalk, and then it's gone again.

Ian Hawkins: 45:33

You're also asked me to remind you of the doctor that you're still in contact with her was there to save him at the race.

Unknown Speaker: 45:41

So we lived in a remote part of Cape Town, as I explained, and the hospital where he was, was in central Cape Town. So a friend of mine kindly said, just crash in our guest room, until Paul, you know, gets out of hospital, at least, that's less traveling to get to see him. And you can go see your more often. And it's better for you. So I did that. And I think it was two days after it had two or three days afterwards, I got a message from somebody. And she was the organizer of the race. And he wants to know how Paul was doing. And he said, Here is the number of one of the doctors who was there. So oh, I asked him for the number because I wanted to say thank you. Because I know this, the structured save polls like so, sent the structure message. And I said, Thank you so much for saving pool. This is his condition right now. It looks like he's got pneumonia, but he's he's stable, etc, etc. So you can be back a message. Oh, and I say thank you for saving Paul's life. Thank you. And he sent me back a message and he said to me, it looks like Paul has saved my life. Wow. So what happened is later on, you told me this, too. He wrote along WhatsApp message, he said he was running the race, you know, Paul, and he said, When Paul dropped, people were calling is their doctors, those doctors. So he came running. And he said they were two, three other doctors, there was a brother and a sister who were interns, and then their friend. And then there was him. He was this older than them. He was our age. And he said I did CPR on pool. And when the paramedics came, we intubated him, we got him in the ambulance, and he said I was going to carry on with the race. But I've been feeling really strange. And I, I kind of thought, well, maybe I shouldn't push myself, you know, having just seen what had happened to Paul, maybe I should just take this a bit more seriously and go see my doctor on Monday, because the race was on Sunday. So you said he got home. And that night, she started to feel that he might be having problems with his heart. Wow. And she drove himself immediately to the hospital. And he said, Sadie, if Paul hadn't dropped when you do it, and I hadn't stopped to help, Paul, I would have continued with the race and I would have had my own cardiac arrest

Ian Hawkins: 48:35

tingles all through that. Isn't that amazing? Is that I keep coming back to the same thought that the tapestry of life how all these things play out together. And we can't make sense of some of it. But when you hear things like that, like it's, yeah, it's amazing. What is possible what what unfolds. It's like a divine right. It's beyond our understanding at times. And and what I was drawn to is just, you know, say, Well, what work would Paul be doing? Well, maybe more of that sort of thing.

Unknown Speaker: 49:17

Yeah. So I know now what work he's doing.

Ian Hawkins: 49:23

Yeah, do you share?

Unknown Speaker: 49:24

Do you want to know? Okay, so Paul passed away four years ago, on the 28th of February. So a few days ago, was the anniversary of his death. And exactly a year earlier, so three years after he passed away, I decided to get serious about helping others in grief. So I've been dabbling a little bit going on Facebook and advising people but it wasn't really something I was doing formally. And so a year ago, I just had to really turn it into Have a service for people because I felt that I walked the journey. I've done all of the spiritual work. I've done Reiki, I know how to meditate. I've been meditating for over 25 years, I saw being an architect spirituality and all the modalities was my hobby. So I've been to loads of karma workshops, I've done breathwork workshops, I've done crystal workshops, I mean, you just name it, I've been interested in I've tried it and done it, and practice that on my friends, but never really done anything formerly with a turtle. I had all the tools when Paul died, and I use them all I did yoga, I meditated, Adam breathwork. I mean, you name it, whatever I could do to lessen that intensity of the motions you go through. And it worked and really helped me. And also my mindset was off the thought that we never die we live on and love lives on. And that is been part of my spiritual growth that has taught me that so. So I was carrying all of these things into grief. And that's why I was able to immediately forgive the driver, because I know that it's part of this larger tapestry that you were talking about. And so to get to the reason is, one day I was meditating. And I just knew without a shadow of a doubt that Paul is on the other side helping me do this work. He's supporting me and cheering me on. And like, this is what I was meant to do. And that is what he is.

Ian Hawkins: 51:50

I can totally relate to that.

Unknown Speaker: 51:53

So so he's given me another guest.

Ian Hawkins: 52:00

Still, still giving you gifts, all these years later, beautiful. And even for those people who were not necessarily in that sort of confirmation, I'm sure everyone. I'm sure everyone can relate to the gifts that we only see later after people have passed. Amazing.

Unknown Speaker: 52:27

But But if I want you to say something to anyone who's listening to this is just look back. And maybe you're looking at something with with anger or resentment, sadness. What if it's a gift in disguise and see if you can discover it, and heard my story of the gift. So I even have another story about the gift of this time. But but the gifts are everywhere, if you choose to see them as gifts.

Ian Hawkins: 53:01

Absolutely, absolutely. And I've had those moments with my dad where I've been meditating and, and it's just like, it's hard to describe to people who haven't had the experience where it's just you get full body emotional experience of confirmation that they're there and, and sending you a message. For me. When the when the first part of the pandemic started, it was all locked down. I just got this message. If everything's gonna be okay. And yeah, again, hard to describe, but as you said, if you are open to receiving the gifts and being prepared to receive whatever it is, well, then you will find a whole new level of beauty through your grief that otherwise you're shutting off.

Gone.

Unknown Speaker: 54:11

So can I mention the work I'm doing? Yeah. Can I

Ian Hawkins: 54:17

can I can I ask? Can I ask one more question first? Well, maybe one. Hopefully anyone. Do you mind if I ask you about your parents?

Unknown Speaker: 54:31

Where they are now.

Ian Hawkins: 54:33

Just like what's unfolded there, given how the relationship started like I had, was there anything unresolved with them that you've needed to address?

Unknown Speaker: 54:44

When I was 30, my dad passed away. there from about the age of 21 to 30 We had a great fringe

Ian Hawkins: 54:59

Good,

Unknown Speaker: 55:00

because I started to study architecture at the age of 23. I was a late student, I studied something else before. And he was an engineer. And so we suddenly had this common interest that, you know, he could mentor me, and I was learning so much. So we had long discussions about architecture and engineering and, and we just had a really easy friendship in those last final years of his

Ian Hawkins: 55:36

life, nice.

Unknown Speaker: 55:38

And with my mom, which was a lot more difficult, because she continued to drink and alienate us with her, you know, she's a bad drunk, mad, bad drunk. And then, when I started on really working hard on my spiritual journey, I got, I came up against this relationship with my mom. And I had to figure my way through it. And the only way through this forgiveness, and acceptance of you know, she actually gave me a gift, she gave me the gift of making those packets with myself, that was going to be okay in my life, that I was going to have a wonderful life. And I was doing that I was keeping my packets to myself. And it was because of her. Yeah. So when I acknowledged her gifts to me, it was easy to forgive her and easy to love her. And then I discovered why she was an alcoholic. She she'd had a very traumatic childhood herself. And she'd been, she'd been sexually molested by his step grandfather. And then, and then my compassion just kicked in. And I mean, when you understand that, you can forgive it as well. And so my mom is still alive. And the relationships easy.

Ian Hawkins: 57:20

They know us. It's a, it's a great point you raise because we've all had experience with parents or significant people that may have not necessarily done everything to our liking. But ultimately, they've had their own journey and, and they're not doing it deliberately. That's, it's just how they have dealt with whatever experiences they've had. So I love how you describe that, that and forgiveness is a big part of the healing process. For anyone out there. Maybe they can't face that, that forgiveness, at this point, it will create so much freedom from the pain for you when you can get to that point, knowing that whatever that person or people have done is through their own extremely awful experiences as well.

Unknown Speaker: 58:17

For me on that was my spiritual guides say to me? Do you do you think your mom meant to put you through hell? Do you think she meant to it? Was it deliberate? And then she kept asked me, Are you sure? Because at first I was like, I can't forgive her. No, she's been terrible to me. And, of course, she did her on purpose. She was so hurtful. And then she kept saying, but are you sure? She meant to hurt you so deeply? Are you sure? And then I eventually dropped into that emotion. Of course, she didn't mean. Of course she did. Yeah.

Ian Hawkins: 59:06

Okay, before, say you're going to start talking about the work you're doing. So please do share that. Okay,

Unknown Speaker: 59:15

so there are various aspects to it. So the very immediate thing that I'm doing is an online event. It's free. And it's called from morning Mo, you are in ing to light. And it's a interview series, much like ghosts podcast, where I'm interviewing 21 experts in grief. And they all have a different take on a different aspect on grief, and they've all walked through the brief story. So Ian, you're one of the guests. So, so, but we have diverse people, people who aren't we idioms people who've died and come back. People who have found relief through meditation is a lady who practices grief yoga. They are people who write people who've written books, people who advocate writing in journals. There's a brilliant guy who talks about the seven languages of sorrow. So he says, just like the love has, you know, languages, so does sorrow. There aren't any, and what they are different ways that people grieve. And some people just don't do talk therapy like me. But he's got a whole lot of other things of how people move through their grief and how they process it, which is very interesting. So I have a lot of diverse people on speaking on diverse topics. And I think people just watching and sharing other people's stories, and seeing that they could and have gotten through their grief journey. And they were okay. Now. In fact, they're thriving now. Yes, is the best gift you can give someone who's grieving to give them hope.

Ian Hawkins: 1:01:13

Absolutely. That to me, that's just the greatest gift of this platform to be able to share stories of hope where, yeah, like you said, people aren't just surviving. They're now thriving, coming out the other side of whatever their grief was, from childhood experiences all the way through to losing loved ones at some Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it, Sadie, we'll make sure we'll get this episode out as soon as possible so we can share the message about that event.

Unknown Speaker: 1:01:45

Thanks. And, and then I work one on one with people. So I'm a grief guide. And I work spiritually. So if people don't know how to meditate, I teach them very simply and easily. That helps them cope with the overwhelming emotions, bring some calm calms down their parasympathetic nervous system so that they can breathe, they can feel calm, so it's not too overwhelming. But the important thing is, they still need to go through grief. They need to feel grief to go through grief. So this isn't a cure. And this isn't to get you over your grief quickly or easily. It's just to give you something to help you go through.

Ian Hawkins: 1:02:37

Yeah, that's it's something that I'm a big believer in, it's you have to reach that level of acknowledgement and acceptance. And then having that the tools and to be able to do that, and then to then come out the other side and thrive. What a gift you're giving to the world.

Unknown Speaker: 1:02:56

Thanks. Yeah, I believe you're doing something similar to so we're both on the same page.

Ian Hawkins: 1:03:02

Yeah, absolutely. Is there anything else say that you'd like to share from your story you've shared so openly, already in some really powerful stories and messages is anything else you'd like to share before you wrap it up?

Unknown Speaker: 1:03:24

I think the thing that I'm realizing now, as time goes on that, when these really hard knocks happen to you advice and you don't deal with them at the time, and you don't go and seek help, and you don't talk to anyone, and you think you can just shoulder it and do it on your own. When someone very close to you does, all of those things come rushing back to be dealt with. So you're not just dealing with the death of your loved one, you are dealing with all of those traumas, or those hard things that have happened to you that all come back, just screaming to be addressed. And, and your grief is going to be a lot more tough if you haven't dealt with those things. And so I would say don't do grief alone. If you can't afford someone should guide you through it or can't afford a coach or guidance, try and find a support that's free, but whatever you do, don't do it alone.

Ian Hawkins: 1:04:42

Well said we are very much on the same page because I talk about that a lot of there's an individual episode somewhere back in the archives there where I talk about exactly that the tsunami of grief that comes to the surface that's related to that particular incident. It all comes flooding back out To me, that's the hardest part, the process. The immediate stuff is stressed in your face you deal with it, but it's all that other stuff that just gets so confusing and overwhelming. And yeah, I'm looking forward to chatting with you more about the work we do because yeah, it's it's important and looking forward to sharing more with you.

Unknown Speaker: 1:05:22

Me to

Ian Hawkins: 1:05:26

say thank you so much for coming on and sharing I love you know, some of these moments of synchronicity and people appearing at the right time. I'm very much looking forward to speaking at your event, and sharing more messages of hope for people. I appreciate you dedicating his time. I know it's late there in Italy now. So thank you, and I'll speak to you soon. Thank you. Thanks. You're welcome. I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Grief Code podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Please share it with a friend or family member that you know would benefit from hearing it too. If you are truly ready to heal your unresolved or unknown grief. Let's chat. Email me at info at Ian Hawkins coaching.com You can also stay connected with me by joining the Grief Code community at Ian Hawkins coaching.com forward slash The Grief Code and remember, so that I can help even more people to heal. Please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform