Ian Hawkins 0:02
Are you ready, ready to release internal pain to find confidence, clarity and direction for your future, to live a life of meaning, fulfillment and contribution to trust your intuition again, but something's been holding you back. You've come to the right place. Welcome. I'm a Ian Hawkins, the host and founder of The Grief Code podcast. Together, let's heal your unresolved or unknown grief by unlocking your grief code. As you tune into each episode, you will receive insight into your own grief, how to eliminate it and what to do next. Before we start by one request. If any new insights or awareness land with you during this episode, please send me an email at info at the end Hawkins coaching.com. And let me know what you found. I know the power of this word. I love to hear the impact these conversations have. Okay, let's get into it. Good everyone. And welcome to this week's guest. Braden Ricketts Braden, how are you?
Braden Ricketts 1:09
I'm fantastic. And happy to be here.
Ian Hawkins 1:10
Good man. Now, interestingly, we met when you were helping launch my podcast, it was an honor. Firstly, thank you. And because you really got the ball rolling. And one of the things that we talked about was, when I was when I was giving your feedback was just how simple you made the whole process. Now, given that you that you work for your business, in the business amplify you with your sister, we're all about helping people launch their podcasts for the first time, we'll get that plug in early. So if anyone's thinking about a podcast, and you make sure you grab Brian's details in the show notes. But so when I when I say that to you about like that concept of how simple you made things through the conversations we had, what does that remind you about? What you did naturally? Well?
Braden Ricketts 2:04
Oh, well, first of all, thank you for that, that stunning compliment. I always enjoyed our conversations. And I'm honored that you've decided to record one to share with other people. So this is exciting for me, that feels great to hear from you that I simplified a process for you. My obsession is to simplify and make things easy for other people. I like getting into the mix in the VA how convoluted something can be and then breaking it down to smooth simple steps that really just help people get to where they want to be without all of those barriers and issues in the way.
Ian Hawkins 2:39
I love that. And I think probably what appealed to me so much is because I like to do the same. But I don't know if you relate to this. But there are times when I'm trying to do the same thing for myself, where I can get myself stuck. And having someone like yourself, really help that. So is that something you can relate to?
Braden Ricketts 2:56
More than you know, I find that the thing I do for other people is really ultimately the thing that I should add want to be doing for myself. So as I get into the mix, and how convoluted things are, I sometimes struggle to understand it until I have somebody that needs my support with it. And then I realized, wow, I've got all this information that's just trapped in the back of my mind that I can share with you easily help you through the process. But implemented for me now I need somebody there to bounce ideas off of.
Ian Hawkins 3:24
Yeah, and to me, that's the power of that external processing. I think it's very much a male thing, not just a male thing, but but from from the men that I've spoken to just that ability to voicings is so powerful. It's interesting, before we jumped on, we're even talking about getting some context for this conversation. And we both agreed that it would be better if we just start talking. And we'll let it lay where it leads.
Braden Ricketts 3:44
Absolutely. That's the power of these conversations. And now, the processing outside of our mind, like you said, until I joined a group of dads, and until I joined your coaching programs, I found I was in cycles in my head. I was like, I know these answers, why do I keep doing the same thing? And then it's until I process it out loud with a group of individuals that I'm like, oh, yeah, hearing myself, say it out loud, and have it reflected back to me, I realize how crazy I am going in these loops. And it's a simple sidestep, to get into the path that I want to be in.
Ian Hawkins 4:13
Feels like every week for me when I'm having a conversation my coach where I'm like, Man, how did I not see that? But it's the it was a Jim Rohn saying you can't see the picture in when you're in the frame. And it's so true. Like just having that that place to to be able to talk. So we don't want to make it all about the work that we both do. But we want to get more into your story. And when when we look at like the concept of grief what what was the big moment for you? What was the moment that changed everything in your life?
Braden Ricketts 4:45
Yeah, so you know, growing up I had things really really easy. i Okay, so I used to struggle with the idea of being successful without having that pain point, that huge problem in your life that you had to overcome. Right, yeah. So I felt like I was always looking for what is my struggle? What is the thing I'm overcoming? What am I dealing with. But really, when I look back, I had the most loving, supportive family, it was literally told that they will love me no matter what I choose to do with my life, and they will support me no matter what I choose to do. And I was just flourishing. And my parents had a beautiful relationship. And I expected to have that exact same relationship, because of they role modeled that for me. Yeah, so I'll be honest, when I was young, I found a woman I loved, and poured everything I could into that relationship. Within a year of getting married, when she told me that she wanted to divorce, that was the turning point. For me, I was like, Wait a second, everything in my life has led to this truth where I thought putting all of myself into something, I gave up all of my happiness to make you happy. All of a sudden, you told me that's not enough. And that hit me like a ton of bricks. My greatest fear is not being enough. So being told that giving my all to something was not enough, would be the turning point for me.
Ian Hawkins 6:07
Yeah, wow. And like you said, the modeling that you had around everything around family and that sort of stuff, you the usual pattern is it just repeats, right. But then you've got that sort of thrust to you at early stages, too. So so. So what was that like? Like? Did it was a complete shock. Like just completely out of the blue to you?
Braden Ricketts 6:32
It was, I think it was a long time coming. So it was a shock in the moment. But then, of course, as soon as you step outside that that moment, and you're looking at hindsight, there are a million signposts along the way, you know, you could see a relationship deteriorate from the outside perspective, once you're out of it. But when you're in that, and you're feeling the mix of emotions in it, yeah, absolutely. I was shocked.
Ian Hawkins 6:59
At the, that's you now unpacking it later, but like, what were those initial moments days? Like? Like we were you making it about her? Were you making it about you? Was it we you're sort of doing all those things that we do and we sort of come down on ourselves and think about what you could have done differently? What What were the sort of thought processes?
Braden Ricketts 7:21
Yeah, I definitely couldn't understand how feelings could change how we can be from one state of love and companionship, to the complete opposite of needing separation and distance. I definitely put it on her, and her inability to meet me at that level of commitment and that level of love and that level of you're the person for me. And not to go next level already. But in hindsight, now, I look back at that, and I'm like, oh, yeah, that codependency I was desperately in need of validation, that I was worthy, and that I was supposed to be there and that I was in the right spot. And I know now knowing that codependency was my mode of operation, I was just trying to draw things from her that were no longer there and no longer available for me. So I was drawing from an empty pit, if that makes sense. And, and from her standpoint, it was just my neediness to feel needed to feel appreciated to feel like all these things she I needed her to give me she was done giving. And that makes total sense.
Ian Hawkins 8:36
Huh. Does not it's, I'm sure like you're talking about it now. And and it makes perfect sense. But at the time, that must have been a you must have had you questioning your very essence and who you were, I guess. Yeah. And
Braden Ricketts 8:51
it's been 10 years of questioning my essence and who I am. Well, based around that situation. That's why I have to say that that's the turning point. For me. I've had multiple relationships since then, each one still carries a little bit of the last. And that is all learning for me. I know I'm I'm the common denominator in all of these relationships. And so I get to see what is my impact? What is my effect? How are these experiences similar? And it's only recently that I've really come to terms with my codependency and how that has been a common thread and theme throughout all of these relationships.
Ian Hawkins 9:28
So can we unpack that a bit more? Like what what does codependency mean to you? And how is it showing up in your life?
Braden Ricketts 9:37
Yeah, so for me, the way it's showing up in my life is whenever I'm in a relationship with another individual actually, I'm gonna take one more step back, because it's actually hit me more recently that I have codependency across all relationships, not romantic, just romantic. So even with clients, even with my son, even with my parents codependency has been there. And so how I define that is seeking validation of my value, my worth and my relevance outside of me. That's how I define codependence. So what I would do is I would negate any of my needs my wants in order to serve the other person. So I would give up opportunities, go hang out with my friends, because somebody asked me for a ride to their event. So I would serve that person's needs of needing a ride, because what I felt like that would in turn, then provide value to that person, which would then show that I am a value. And then they would do the same for me anytime I need something they would in turn offer their services and supports.Ian Hawkins:
Yeah, and the word that comes to mind also is fulfillment, right? Like, what if we if we're living in a life where where we have that need to have things validated? Which I know all too well, because that's been a massive chunk of my life as well can still fall into that trap at times, is that actually, it's the lack of fulfillment and satisfaction with other areas of your life as, as you're sort of searching? And probably, as you say, internally, as you searching externally for all those things, is that does that resonate with you too?Braden Ricketts:
Yeah, what comes up for me, as you say, that is I was unaware of how to fulfill my own needs. So I would look to serve other people's needs and hoping they would in turn fulfill mine.Ian Hawkins:
Hmm. When you think back, you said you had like a, a great family and loving parents and great setup. Is that a pattern that you see in in any of that parenting? Or is this something unique to you?Braden Ricketts:
You know, I think I think the fact that I was told how special I was, I was told I was going to be successful. I was told I was handsome. I received so much validation, from my care givers from my parents, my grandparents, family members, that I started to look for elsewhere. Right. Like, I wasn't looking to fulfill my own bucket, I was looking for other people to continue to give me that validation. Yeah, I think that what you're saying is from my parenting, there was they were just piling compliments on to me that I thought, This is how the world works. I just gotta keep showing up this way. And people are gonna keep feeding me these compliments, and then internally feeds me and my drive my energy, butIan Hawkins:
so you're, you're giving out all these compliments everywhere else and then wondering why the hell it's not coming back to you.Braden Ricketts:
Yeah, or it does come back. But the problem is, when it comes back to you, it doesn't feel the way it does when you put it out there. So when I give somebody a compliment, I feel energized, because I'm recognizing something special in that person. If somebody recognizes something special in me, and they give me a compliment, there is a oh, I want to call it like a cheap high. It's like, yeah, you feel a little endorphin. And then you're like, wait a second, that doesn't feel clean, that doesn't feel good. What's missing? And you realize it's because it's not exactly the way you want it to feel. And I think it's because it's coming from outside of you. It's not you accepting yourself. So if somebody is praising me for something I have not, or I do not believe I am worthy of that praise, it doesn't actually feel good. Because all I hear is Oh, that's, that's cute. That's good enough, rather than that's really good.Ian Hawkins:
That actually takes me back to the thought I had when you said you're getting all that validation from your parents and all those compliments, is that no matter what we hear, if we don't have a belief, a core belief that that what people are saying is actually true, then it's hard to receive it. And then thinking about conversations with with my children, where they've said, Yeah, but you have to say that that. So there's that, that also conscious realization of bias, that well, you're my parents, you're gonna say that sort of stuff. So I don't know how that plays out for you. But it's like, to me it's a it's a common one is like, Okay, well, I don't feel it. What you're actually saying so and I believe itBraden Ricketts:
to be in relationships, it's it's the I love you, right? It's that sort of three word phrase that we have so much power and, and fear around properly expressing or how it comes about. So in one relationship, I found that I was resistant to saying those words because they're expected. Once something is expected, I have a natural resistance to doing the expected I like to do things a little differently. I like to be unique. I like I mean, my shirt says your uniqueness is unique because I want to be different, right? So if it's expected I have, I have a challenge of actually doing things as expected. What I realized was that I didn't want to just say the words for the sake of saying the words, I want to have an intention or purpose behind it. And what switched for me was instead of just saying I love you, or I decided to say what I love about that person. So I would say, I love that you do this, I love that you look at things this way. I love how you approach this. So my attempt was to find the things I love about the person instead of just that blanket statement, because as you're saying, it sounds like it is just an expectation. It's, it's not a habit. It's just something you do.Ian Hawkins:
Yeah, it comes back to what I know about being a parent and being a child of parents is actions speak louder than words. So if love has been sent through words, but it's not being expressed through actions, then it doesn't really have the same mark. Right? So it's interesting now that you that you say the same sort of thing, right? It's about the action that that inspires in you.Braden Ricketts:
I'll take it one step further. And I'll talk about the subtext of a conversation, right? If, if you're saying something, but you're feeling something different, then there's a mismatch between the energy you're putting out along with those words, and people are gonna feel that confusion from you. So if you're not feeling exactly what you're saying, then you're not going to be receptive. People are not gonna be receptive to the words that you're saying.Ian Hawkins:
Absolutely. And we often see it in body language, too. It's like, smile smiling without your eyes actually changing. It's like, it's like so forced, and that that's the energy that we feel, and, and see at times. So when when you've, you've gone through that moment of, oh, I want a divorce. And then you realizing that you're making it all about them? How do you then what's the process that you went through? How much time did it take between that thought and then realizing that actually, okay, well, what? What do I need to do here to do that take a while. Yeah,Braden Ricketts:
absolutely. So I'm not 10 years, 11 years removed from that relationship? I would say the first three years, somebody told me that after three years, it's much easier to not think about the person to get by without them. And they're absolutely right. It's almost like that calendar day hit a three years and all of a sudden, I felt grateful, I felt forgiveness, I felt satisfaction. I felt like it was the best thing that could have happened to me. But for those first three years, absolutely. I was in turmoil, trying to figure it out. Right, I was still in my head. Why wasn't her feeling the same as my feeling? And how did they not? How can we not communicate about this? AreIan Hawkins:
we in a place of self blame at all?Braden Ricketts:
Yep, absolutely. 100% ownership, knowing that it's, I have I have the responsibilities, I have the control over my experiences, and what did I not say? What did I not do? How can I behave differently? How can I better express myself? Absolutely. I have definitely taken myself to the cleaner. Many times.Ian Hawkins:
Yeah. And I think this is one of the things about grief that that continues to not pay us back. But But impact us going forward is is those moments of exactly that. Whether it's guilt, or what if saw self reflection or a harsh way blame is we get stuck in these patterns of going. It's actually keeping us trapped, right? It's keeping us trapped? Or what if I did this differently? Could it have changed the outcome?Braden Ricketts:
Yeah, that's a that's a hard game to play.Ian Hawkins:
Yeah, cuz it's never ending in it. And it's like, kind of like a one way track to know where you mentioned something. When you when you talked about the relationship and an ending, you said, I gave up my, I don't have these exact words, but he kind of said, like, I gave up my happiness to give to give everything I could for your happiness. Even in that language there. It's kind of like you, you were making it all about them and neglecting your own stuff. Yeah. And does that, like I know, you said you've done a heap of that. But is that a pattern that you still recognize in yourself now? And and what are the strategies that you use to actually make sure that you can navigate that in a way that works for you?Braden Ricketts:
Love, love this question. The words I used to use a lot are I lost myself in the service of others. And I've had a coach recently identify for me that one of the pieces of my experience that I've put as my purpose is connection. So connection with people and somehow what that has related to or the way that has as manifested in my life is seeking my purpose by being of service to people in need. I got into nonprofit work. I used to support people who are job seekers. I didn't know what kind of job I wanted to do. So I went to an employment counselor. Next thing, you know, I'm an employment counselor and helping other people figure out what to do with their lives. Right? Yeah. So yeah. Is this a pattern? Absolutely. This is a pattern where I've forgotten the thing that I want to do for me, because I am feeling the purpose and the drive of supporting other people in what they want.Ian Hawkins:
So what I know about that, is that the very thing that we struggle with, we become an expert, because we're continuing to try and find answers. So I used to joke about even in my sort of mid to late 30s, I'll let you know what I want to do when I grow up. Because I was still confused. But the thing is, I've asked so many questions, and I'd gone through so many different processes. I knew what worked and what didn't work. And then as I continued to get closer, and then started to work out well, what what I want to do when I grow up is pretty much the things that I enjoy most now. And then continuing them is it makes it easier to help people. So so if you think about now, I know you work as a coach within the amplify your business, but also you work as a coach independently as well. What are the skills that you've learned to help other people with exactly that, that you struggle with?Braden Ricketts:
So as an employment counselor, I was priding myself on, I could help people get whatever job they wanted, because I was able to not get every job, like all of my failures, and looking for work made me an expert on how to not get a job. So I know what strategies don't work. Let's try some strategies that do work. Yeah. Now, this, this has come about in coaching as well, because almost every conversation I have with a client is based on something that I've gone through as well. Or, as you said, I've become the lead investigator, because my curiosity of driving, what it is I'm trying to solve is going to support me in serving other people as well. Because whatever we're chasing, is going to become a magnet for the people that are attracted to us. And they're going to come to us with the questions that we had. Because we went looking for those answers now that we have those answers, people are starting to find us, right, we see that we have those answers in the work that we do. And the people that need those solutions, those answers that we found are coming looking for us. Absolutely. One of the ways that that's showing up for me now in both the podcasting and the copywriting and coaching, is helping people craft and define what it is they do and how they do it. Right. I work with people from all the way back in employment counseling to now podcasting, articulate what their mission is, and how they're aiming to achieve it. Right. So in employment counseling, that was resumes, that was how to answer questions in a job interview. That was how to craft your elevator pitch. So you could tell somebody who you are and what you do. When I left employment counseling, I started a nonprofit, I did a charity for children learning entrepreneurship. And to me that was so excited because these kids were like, I want to, you know, solve the world's problem of plastics in the ocean. Here's my idea, my great, here's how you tell people about that idea. And like giving them the power to have a solution and articulate that idea to other people. So now in podcasting, it's the same thing. It's what is your drive? What is your mission? And how do you articulate that to people so that you're starting a movement in that idea? And it all comes down to being the lead investigator, instead of being the expert in the field? Like I have all the answers, be the one who's most curious and lead the conversation with your curiosity? How can we solve this problem? What is this next curiosity that I'm chasing and bring your audience along with you?Ian Hawkins:
Fantastic. And when you were saying that, it made me think that's kind of the essence of purpose. The thing that you continue to be the lead investigator on I love that term. And being and you're endlessly curious about is the very thing that you're going to be able to be the greatest help to other people, because it's like, you've done it your whole life. And you continue to do it. Because there's so much value so much fulfillment, so much strength in doing that, that's a great way of putting it so. So if we look at through that lens of of your purpose. Does that line up for you? About what what is your why?Braden Ricketts:
You know, what? I've been trying to craft. My Why, what it is that I do? Because this is what I do for other people, right? So I've got to figure out how to write my own. And this is where all of this comes together. I realized, again recently that what I do is I help people discover and define their purpose. So my purpose is helping people get clear and define I didn't articulate what their purpose is.Ian Hawkins:
Love it at risk of making this more confusing to To what purpose? What does that give you?Braden Ricketts:
What does that what does that purpose give me? Yeah. All right, it gives me what my goal in life is, is to spend my time having conversations with people about the impact they want to have on the world.Ian Hawkins:
Or I love that. And what's the impact you want to have in the world?Braden Ricketts:
I want everybody to understand that their unique genius is going to serve the world just being you is what's going to make the world a better place. So how can you be more comfortable and grounded in who you are? And what your uniqueness is? And what that looks like out there in theIan Hawkins:
world? So good. So when you think back to your childhood, and you're getting those messages and platitudes and validation from your parents and other carers? Was there a big part of you that wasn't feeling unique? Because you continued to get those when that's not exactly how you're actually feeling?Braden Ricketts:
Can you read? Can you ask me that question? One more time. I like to like the thoughts that are happening as you're asking.Ian Hawkins:
Yeah. So if you think about those those childhood years, and you're getting the messages that you shared, and there, you said, pretty much all positive. What was the disconnect? What was the what was the bit that didn't add up at your end? Where it's like, okay, you're saying all this, but why do I feel like that?Braden Ricketts:
I don't know if this is gonna answer your question. But here's what I can't get out of my head. While you're asking that. What, and this has come into my parenting, and it's coming from the nonprofit that I started like, this is sort of everything is because I felt so validated and reassured of my success. As a child, like my grandmother telling me, I was gonna be famous. My parents told me I was going to do great work. I sat back and waited for those things to happen for me. I felt like I was being told to just hang out. All this greatness that you expect is coming to you. And what I realized when I met a partner that I started the entrepreneurship for kids charity with was that, yes, that is true. But there's action and there's effort, and there's initiative that is required. And the entrepreneur skill set is what I saw as the solution. So teaching the entrepreneur skill set the drive, the realizing that you can make a difference with your actions was the missing piece for me. And that's why I wanted to share that with the children growing up.Ian Hawkins:
Now, knowing knowing you and also knowing Michelle, you're you're just sister and boss, is that the right term? Absolutely. Is that you grew up with entrepreneurial parents.Braden Ricketts:
Well, we grew up with, why not for no apparent and long term employee?Ian Hawkins:
Yes. So the contrast? Yeah. So So what has that helped? So just purely from the entrepreneurial side of things? How has that helped on the journey? And then we might get into some of the challenges of having that contradiction as well.Braden Ricketts:
Oh, I'm only used to answering the contradiction side of this question, which was watching watching my father's roller coaster ride of emotions when he's having a good month versus a bad month. And that terrified me. So I grew fearful of the uncertainty of entrepreneurship. I went into become an employee, as my mother was a great example of that of longevity and a career that was the stable foundation that our family had of financial security and all of that, so that was very alluring to me. Now, how's entrepreneurship helped me was your question. The other side of that, yeah, one of the positive side you asked me, okay, so what I got to see was both my sister and my father create the world experiences that they wanted by adjusting their approaches to work. My sister is an absolute genius when it comes to creating work around her desired life. So she graduated from outdoor recreation program and got a job running the entertainment crews are sorry, the the play area of the cruise ship, so the rock climbing wall, the basketball court, so she just got to cruise the world and play games. When she came home, she decided she was going to go be a ski instructor at the at the ski resorts go live on the mountain and ski. Now she lives off the grid and lives on a lake and teaches people how to podcast and is traveling the world with podcasting. So I've got witness that watching you know your dream life built around the world. that you provide. So that's been a huge benefit on the entrepreneur side for me.Ian Hawkins:
Yeah, and I don't think that should be understated. Because there's there's plenty of people who go, Oh, I'd love to have a side business or a side hustle or, or get started on a business. And for most of us, we haven't had that experience. So for me that that wasn't what I was. Had role model. To me, it was like, the security that you talked about the certainty of a job and all the language that went with that, I guess, when I think about it, now, it was probably my brother. That was the role model in the entrepreneurial side, and, and I have leant on him a fair bit. So having that what a gift for you to be able to then go from that job to be able to, yeah, okay, well, what else is possible for me? Well, what did that open your eyes up to?Braden Ricketts:
Goodness, I, it opened up so much, because what I saw from I keep going back to employment counseling. But when people are trying to find a job, one, they're redefining their life. And they're taking an effort to make an impression on somebody. They're positioning themselves to be the best fit for that organization. What I found was the most successful job seekers were the ones who took an entrepreneurial approach. Right, they decided to craft just things a little bit differently, they saw the challenge or the problem as an opportunity to do things a little bit differently. This is why I felt that the entrepreneurial skill set was so important to teach to youth, and which is why we started the build of his kids programs. And then why now I work with entrepreneurs, because what I see is that they have a world of opportunities available to them. They have tools and resources that can go in any direction that they feel necessary to get to where they want to go. It's really just an adult playground when it comes to business and entrepreneurshipIan Hawkins:
or love that. And what I when I think about the sessions with you, that's exactly what you brought to the table was that the ability to think a bit differently, the ability to approach the problem from a different angle, and the ability to see things that I couldn't see. So if you think about that now, and we come back to what we talked about before, it's hard to see we're we're in the frame, what what do you look at now as the doing things different part of your business that maybe you're a bit stuck on?Braden Ricketts:
Well, I can tell you that automation is going to be a real struggle for me, because I feel the greatest value that I can provide is one on one interaction. And these deep dive conversations where we look at, you know, your passion and your interests. So that's why we're a boutique service provider, we have people that come to us for that white glove handheld expert service, to create a program where people just run through the system is not something where I feel like they're going to get that level of self reflection to really make the statements and the claims that they want to and that they're proud of as they step out into the world with their shows.Ian Hawkins:
Yeah, that's great. And, and that's probably why we've been drawn together because I operate the same way. It's like the cookie cutter approach, just plug in and away you go works to a certain level, but not if you haven't got the clarity and not if you've haven't got the certainty and not if you don't know the what you don't know. And like, to me, that's what you'd explained there is exactly for anyone who's thinking about having a podcast and they want that more hands on approach, and they want to be able to take him through the journey. So they have that certainty and clarity, then, absolutely amplify is the place to go. What I'm drawn to there, as I say that is, to me, that just shows the blend of the two, the entrepreneurial and the job is that you get to have that opportunity to show them what's different, but you also provide the certainty and the security of and clarity of what that person needs at the same time. So you've got you've kind of got that balance built in. I don't know if you'd looked at it like that.Braden Ricketts:
No, that's a really great way of looking at it. As you were saying, it reminds me that as entrepreneurs, we forget the thing that is the hardest for us to do we often spend the most time on, but there's people that can support us with those things. Yeah, like our approach is to teach you how to do your own podcasts. But we can also do it for you. We want you to stay in your zone of genius, which is speaking which is creating which is talking about what you do, and then allow us to take care of all the rest of you know producing it and publishing it and getting it out there.Ian Hawkins:
Yeah, and to me that was the greatest gift that I got from working with you guys was exactly that is like I can just do the bits that I need to do and and yes, there were some other Take elements. But again, like you said, you get support on that you get someone into the business to help you with those sorts of things then, because when you talked about automation, like I kind of had a cold chills, I'm like, Yeah, I don't want to do that stuff either. Like I've, I've sat in, in front of websites and funnels and CRMs, and all that sort of stuff and spent like countless hours and making it happen. But I'm like, this, this is worse than any punishment. I just, just can't I just can't somebody has given us some of the gist of it, and they do it. And out of a that's a lot of what you're describing now, is that I blurred it out, like, here's the gist of it, and you just made sense of it. So come back to that that contrast. How did that restrict you? Then you said the ups and downs of your dad's business? How did that? How did that distract you? or distract you? How did that? How did that keep you stuck at different times? And how did that impact you when you were going about your professional career?Braden Ricketts:
Yeah. When I watched the emotional roller coaster, the struggles and the the anger, the frustration? No, looking back. Now I realized that early on, I made a decision that my goal was to be comfortable, was to be satisfied. And was to live an easy life. It was when I when I moved in with an entrepreneur that I realized those were really limiting decisions that were holding me back, I was afraid to challenge myself, I was afraid to get outside of my comfort zone. Because my valued comfort so highly, that I just wanted to stay somewhere that was safe things were the way they were. And I just found myself growing in complacencyIan Hawkins:
when it comes to one's boredom, because I was very much in that space as well. It's like, I'll just sit here and I won't have to make any mistakes, and I won't have to do anything that's gonna cause me grief. So if you think back to those times, how did that impact you? Because what was your dad tend to be more snappy? Did he tend to retreat away? Like, what? How did that impact you? When he was going through all of that?Braden Ricketts:
You know, I think I was just worried about his health and well being. I watched the frustration grow into lethargy, you know, when you're not working, and then I, you know, I would I would make space for him, I wouldn't not approach my father when he's not satisfied or happy, which you know, puts a strain on the relationship because then you're tiptoeing around people. And as soon as you start tiptoeing around others emotions, then again, you're worried about what's going on outside of you and not what's going on inside you.Ian Hawkins:
Hmm, do you see that, that pattern repeating with you now as a dad yourself around writing those emotions and how that might impact your young fellow?Braden Ricketts:
Actually, as I was saying, and I was seeing it in the relationship that ended in divorce, because I again, would tiptoe around emotions to ensure the other person was satisfied. And there was no conflict between us. And again, that negated my own feelings and awareness of where I was at. As, as far as with as far as with my son, I noticed that him and I have a very open relationship, when it comes to emotions and feelings. I've been doing my best to role model that too, I want it to be a safe space where he's able to articulate the emotions that he's feeling, and we can explore them, He's not wrong for having those feelings. So with that in mind, I try to model that by sharing with him exactly where I'm at, and being upfront and honest with my emotional states.Ian Hawkins:
Love it. And taking that learning forward into you playing that same role that's massive.Braden Ricketts:
About that is sorry to cut you off is that when he knows that I'm in a bad state, and then witnesses me, journal, go for a dog walk or meditate, and then come back and my state is better. He's witnessing that I have control and that I know what I'm doing in order to rectify up an emotion that I'm not happy with. And I'm hoping that that passes down to him that he has control and that he could do the same thing.Ian Hawkins:
100% that's gonna that's gonna be more powerful than any words you say to him is him seeing that? The shift in your physiology in your, in your energy? That That to me, that's like you're teaching him emotional intelligence. And to me, that's just one of the greatest gifts we can give our children is at ability. So absolutely. It'd be passing that down. What what what sort of stood out to me there was when you talked about the the impacts of that those relationships to me, that's the The unresolved and unknown that I talked about a lot, it's like the the moment was the moment the divorce. But it's when you peel back the layers and realize how much is this actually is actually not from luck as you did anything wrong in the moment in the divorce or even leading up to it, but how this pattern has been running for most of your life. And that's not your fault. And it's definitely not your parents both definitely those other people's fault. It's just that how the pattern that was built from from those early formative years. So I know that you know this, so how have you then use those patterns, what you've learned from those patterns to your advantage now going forward in future relationships, and, and business?Braden Ricketts:
Well, I would love to say I've got all that figured out. But that is the juice, the learning of all of that is where I'm at right now. I am currently figuring out all of these patterns that I'm now aware of, from codependency to the fear of complacency, all of these things. And I am feeling very empowered, because I'm aware of that, in my interactions. And in my decisions that I'm making now. It's almost as if I've peeled back the curtains, and I can see what frames or filters I've put over my perspective. And I see my life differently through the eyes that I have now. Could you summarize your question again, and see if I can hit a point on it.Ian Hawkins:
I will come back to it, I just want to like, I want to recognize something. Now that you mentioned before, you talked about going deeper. It's about the energy that you that you get back. Now when I do these podcasts. And when I coach, I find myself unconsciously mirroring back how people operate. Now I'm going to tell you that and I'd have to get back and listen. But I don't feel like I've been able to do an interview where I don't think I've missed a word on anything I've been arming and hiring. And I'm conscious of that's because you speak that way all the time. You're really clear. You're succinct. You don't go over the top with you're talking. But there's no one I'm an arming and hiring and, and so I just want to give you that validation. Because to me, it says that, that's a natural gift for you to be able to just stand in front of a camera or an audience and just and away you go. The other thing I am drawn to is the questions to ask aren't flowing as naturally as they usually do. And to me that may be a reflection of some of that uncertainty that you do have. So with that in mind, going back to that question, from looking back at that path, how was that uncertainty from your childhood? How have you been able to bring more of that certainty into your life?Braden Ricketts:
Well, the practice that I'm employing these days is I am certainly focused on grounding myself and focusing my attention on my lower core, my chakra areas that most of the sacrum. Because what I've learned is, over the last few years, my spiritual practice, I've really focused on the higher chakras. So I was all in the head. And I was all about having a spiritual experience. And I think that put me way out here above my head, and I lost my grounding energy in my physical self and who I am, because I was looking for something again outside of me. So in focusing my energy into my sacrum, that's the right way saying it. I'm breathing in and out through there as we're talking. And what I'm finding is that it allows me to keep my energy in my core and my center, and focused on how I'm feeling, what I'm wanting how I want to express myself without attaching to those that I'm around. So to answer your question, I'm practicing these days of really getting clear on what I want. That's always been something that's been outside of me because what I wanted was everybody around me to be happy. What I wanted was for everybody to feel good. What I wanted was something easy. What I wanted was to not do a lot of work. So I would just serve and support and help and do everything outside of me. And now that I focus on me and what I want, I'm getting a little bit selfish, but it that serving myself in that manner is energizing, and I feel like I can do it. I think thatIan Hawkins:
a lot of that, and I related to that a lot, it's why I did a PE teaching degree because I thought there won't be much work. He literally throw them a ball and away you go. Unfortunately for me, when I started that uni degree, they changed the curriculum to have a more classroom focus with personal developments, and, and, and sex education and health and all that sort of stuff. So pretty much that ended my teaching career with that. But it's interesting, just reflecting now about that, how much I was in that same space, just looking to just be lazy.Braden Ricketts:
And my backfire didn't?Ian Hawkins:
Well, it did, but just thinking about it. Now the what's what's true for both of us is that we love conversation, and we see, we see the value in that when we're younger as well. There's no value in that, because it's not hard work. But actually, I know now for me, I know now for you also is that the conversation is actually the greatest gift.Braden Ricketts:
Absolutely. Like you said, you're, you're struggling to get that next question coming to your mind. And for me, I don't have something that I'm aiming to deliver here, I don't have a message that I need to put down, I don't have a pitch, I don't have a close. So I'm not trying to get you to ask me a certain question. I'm super curious about where the conversation goes. And to me, that's the magic. That's what I love about the work that I do.Ian Hawkins:
I love it. And to me, that's exactly how the conversations felt. We've kind of just gone wherever it's gone. And again, it's been different to most of my interviews, which is, which is great, because, as you say, a lot of guests would come on to any podcast, wanting it to go a certain way, which is completely normal. But if I come back to what you talked about, then I was going to put a more logic based and less spiritual translation of what you were talking about before. grounded, really is that foundational stuff, if you think about the human body, the foundation, the base, the sacral, you talked about that self control, that certainty, that's being less up there big picture thinking, but coming back down to two, what is the feeling in the body. And so for anyone thinking like you that maybe they've didn't understand that, or they do understand it to the point where they realize they spent too much time up here in their head. And coming back to that self control foundation certainly is gonna have a massive impact. And it's interesting that you raised that because I work with clients of all different nature and personality and preferences and all those different things. The, what you described there is just so similar for the other big picture clients that I've had, is that they spend a lot of their time with ideas and innovations and all these things going on. And then coming back to that grounding can be the challenge. So if you look at your own perspective on that, you think, what what I see is you effortlessly think about big picture stuff, and, and concepts and innovations and new ways. We bring that back to something more logical for someone to understand before you are learning a spiritual practice, how did you help yourself to stay more grounded? What were the processes that you took yourself through to bring more of that self control into your world?Braden Ricketts:
What are the processes I use to bring myself back into self control?Ian Hawkins:
Yeah, so beyond just the ones you mentioned before?Braden Ricketts:
Yeah, I've been journaling since I was probably 1314. Something that crossed my mind recently is with all the mental health challenges I've faced. In those 25 years, I've documented. And if I go through all my journals, I can probably see the entire the entirety of my mental health. From the time I was 14 Till now, which is which is crazy. But that has always been my go to I always wrote out what my frustrations were I wrote out when I was angry about I just had to get things out of my head. Because I figured if they're in my head, it's like a cloud. It's like a mist that's blocking everything. So as soon as I write them down, there's clarity, or at least it's over there. I can put it to the side. And now I can see things a little bit differently. So to answer your question, writing, but also from an early age, self esteem prophecy was the book my sister gave me when I was about 16. And that was the spiritual journey start. But I started meditating from the time I read that book. So again, close to 25 years, meditation has been almost a daily practice for me, which, again, is just that grounding and breathing, giving me clear headspace to go forth and make decisions.Ian Hawkins:
Oh, I love that you've highlighted those two things. Because to me, they I've discovered both Those later in life, but they've just been pivotal. They probably if I, if I look at the most powerful things I've done, if they're not the two most powerful, they're they're pretty close the journaling, keeping a record because it gets the certainty gets the confusion out of your head, but it also a way of tracking your progress. So how many times do you get to the end of a day or a week, or a month or a year and go, Man, I just didn't get the things done, I wanted to get done. But then you read back through your journal and go, Wow, I've actually come a long way, there's so much value in that. And then again, the meditation does the same. Like, without getting deep in the, in any of the science of it, I feel better, I feel more focused, I have more clarity. And just feel like I can regulate myself so much easier. SoBraden Ricketts:
there's two, there's two secrets in both of that, that you're that you just highlighted for me. One is when? Oh, sorry, these are big concepts that I want to I want to narrow down real quick. What is there gonna be? Okay. So when I talk about grounding myself and staying in me and what I want, what I've discovered in the magic in that, especially with the meditation, and the journaling, is I start to recognize and put emphasis on the little things, I start to really appreciate a good cup of coffee, I start to really appreciate the sunshine when I'm walking my dog. And I find the more I simplify the things that I need and want, the more my joy and my gratitude just expands and I start to just love every single day. And things start to fall into place for me, once I'm feeling that sense of like, oh, wow, I love this little thing. And I love this moment that I've had, you recognize the moments your day becomes just a compilation of beautiful moments. And that's always a very healthy and happy place to be. Who the other, the other side of that what you talked about, when you lose traction, and you're you feel like you haven't come far enough. This is to me the one of the plagues of society is that we don't love the gap. And what I mean by the gap is from where you are to where you want to be, we need to learn to love that gap. Because that's all life is about. If we look at everything we wanted before, it's where we're at today, you know, like today, and where I'm at is not good enough. Because I want more, we always want more, we're always expanding. And yet, we get frustrated, we get angry with the fact that we haven't gotten to where we want to be it yet. We just finished a huge journey to get where we are now that if we recognize that we've got gratitude. And if we recognize that it's just going to be the same journey again, to that next level, that next phase, that gap, if we love that gap that's unfolding. That's learning that's growth. That's expansion. And that's all the fun stuff.Ian Hawkins:
Yeah. Oh, I love that. It's it's similar to the conversation I was having with a client this morning around the plateau. It's life is life is full of undulating moments, when we realize that, when we're on a growth path, that the downs, actually downs, they're more of just a flat spot. And similar to what you describe them, knowing that you're on a journey from here to here, here is always going to be so much better. So embrace the journey, embrace that plateau, knowing that the next rise is going to come and it always takes you to a better place. And the phrase that really had a positive impact for me was that that phrase, this too shall pass. We get so caught in the moment. Not so much presence, which is the other thing you were talking about before. But more of a sense that this is how it's going to be forever, whatever we're feeling at the time, whatever we're experiencing, we get so stuck because we feel like it's gonna be forever. But what you described is like, no, no, embrace it. Like I love that, getting excited about the challenges that you've got to come because they're going to allow you to go to places that you never ever injuriedBraden Ricketts:
there's that that whole, you have to become the person that has the thing that you want before you can have the thing that you want. And so the becoming to me is the exciting part. It's like, I'm going to be more I'm going to be better, I'm going to be bigger, I'm going to be that person that has all those things.Ian Hawkins:
So I go, I also want to highlight what you said before about like I'm coming back to that present moment because I think that's another one of those great activities, that helps you get grounded that helps you come back to that place of foundation. You think about how many times I don't know if you've if this resonates for you, when you have a lot going on professionally and then you're in the inviting environment with your children. And you just realize that you're not present and I usually think about things later that they said where I just gave her, like what my son calls NPC non player, character response. And I think about lettering go on, he's actually reaching out for a public conversation there. So then going back and going, you know, you said this the other day, and I really should have had more of that. So how do you make sure you prioritize presence? How do you bring more of that presence into your well?Braden Ricketts:
I love that. Presence is really the key factor of parenting, isn't it? So there's definitely some key phrases that I flag or catch my attention. What do you think Dad? Soon as I hear that phrase, I'm like, Ah, this, this we're looking we're testing. We're we're seeking boundaries. We're looking for opinions. We're looking for some sort of foundational information here,Ian Hawkins:
seeing if you're listening. Yeah, yeah. Seeing if you'reBraden Ricketts:
listening. I'm challenged by this question, because when, when I was divorced, I made a conscious decision that I had to show that I'm a great parent, I'm not going to fall into the trap. I was so worried about becoming a deadbeat single dad, that was my greatest fear. So to counteract that, I decided I was going to parent with unconditional love, and 100% presents. Well, at the time, I think instead of presents, I was saying attendance. Because what that looked like for me is I actually altered my work schedule so that I could show up to every single school function, I could show up to every single sporting practice every single sporting event. I was present, right? Present, and presents are a little bit different. And that has evolved over the years as my kids now in the teenage years presence is really yours. And it's it's being there to have conversations and answer questions. I'm, I'm lucky, because the fact that I kept moving around meant that I was never actually close to his school or within his school district. I to this day, still drive my son to and from school every day. And I know that at his age, he could start taking the bus. But there's a piece of me that's not ready to let go of those moments of connection in the car. There's something about a moving vehicle that takes down the barriers of the walls for a child. Once you know you're crossing a bridge, all of a sudden, they become open, they become curious. They ask questions, you have conversations, even if we're just listening and sharing musical tastes, to me, those moments of connection are the most valuable time that I have.Ian Hawkins:
Yeah, 100%. The other thing around the driving and I think it was my mom who pointed this out is that you're sitting side by side. Usually other conversations are face to face, which can be quite confronting. Yeah. I don't know if it's more or less with people that were close to us, maybe more so at different times. But that side by side where it doesn't feel like a threatening space where people suddenly open up. So I find the same thing going for a walk with your children or going for a drive. It's like suddenly you get these whole other conversations. And what what I was drawn to also is what you describe there is like, they are also visually taking in a whole lot of other stuff, which is almost like a distraction. So it's twofold. I always thought it was more about the seating arrangement, but it's definitely the ability for them to switch off from all the noise because they their eyes are sort of wandering so great tip. Yeah. Great tip. You said something before about being more than I haven't got a heap of trees in my body from the conversation. But that one did like what what? You may not have an answer to this, because you may not know what that more looks like but But what is more look like for you from a identity perspective, and then also for the impact that you want to have.Braden Ricketts:
Yeah, I think that's part of the discovery process. I'm in at the moment, the unfolding of what more looks like. This might sound like a very conceited statement. But I'm quite happy saying it now which I've grown up believing that I was going to have a big impact. I grew up believing that I was going to make a difference. So I think uncovering and discovering what difference I'm making or how that what I'm going to do that will have an impact is part of that more, because it feels like it's more than I am now. Because again, it's that acceptance of where I'm at and what I've achieved and what my skill sets are. I'm not sure I'm at that place where I can have the impact I've intended myself to have my whole life. So that becoming more is am I learning more Am I practicing something that all sudden I become very skill that and my, you know, getting a connection with a divine source that allows me to channel and share something right? What is that more that? I'm becoming? So dancer question. pure curiosity.Ian Hawkins:
So good. And again, just a quick translation of for those that are less inclined to think that that way spiritually. I was I did a workshop yesterday and I was talking to them about you can find that space where answers come now call it a higher power or call it your own intuition or your own inner self, the more we can slow down and find that presence that you talk about, breathe, and relax and wait long enough, then the answer just finds us. We don't have to get caught in knowing exactly what that impact is we don't have to have. There's a lot of buzzwords out there out are right around vision. And while it is important to have something that you're working towards. It's also important to be open to opportunities, possibilities. And anything else that may present that you have no concept of at this point. So it's it's a great way that you describe it. It's like it's curiosity, and it comes back to that term that you mentioned before being the leading investigator, being the leading investigator of your own life. Man if you live that way. That's that's a good life lived I reckon.
I have to agree. So good.
I'm not sure there's anything else that that I'd like to ask Braden, but is there anything else that you want to share about a message to the world or something specific around the work that you're doing that you'd love for people to know?Braden Ricketts:
You're doing okay? Where you're at is exactly where you need to be. Your purpose is to be joyful. And joy is. Joy is the feeling we have when we're in the pursuit of our potential. So find something to chase find a gap that you're gonna love chasing and get after.Ian Hawkins:
We're gonna have to cut that out for a fair bit of marketing. I think that what it what a great way of putting it. Thank you so much, Braden. That's cool. Where can people find you?Braden Ricketts:
Right now, Braden ricketts.com is linked to my calendar. So I'm just giving away an opportunity to connect with me. I have 30 Minute Calls available to book at Braden Birkenstock calm, have a conversation and see if I can be of support.Ian Hawkins:
Awesome. And again, I'll reiterate my experience with you have been exactly that support for me specifically for the podcasts, but I know that you would do a fantastic job, whatever. And however people need support so I can highly recommend you taking advantage of that opportunity to speak with this great man. Thank you, Brandon. appreciate you sharing. And I appreciate you being so open with the conversation.Braden Ricketts:
Oh, excellent conversation. I appreciate it. As always. Thanks again.Ian Hawkins:
Welcome, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Grief Code podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Please share it with a friend or family member that you know would benefit from hearing it too. If you are truly ready to heal your unresolved or unknown grief. Let's chat. Email me at info at Ian Hawkins coaching.com You can also stay connected with me by joining the Grief Code community at Ian Hawkins coaching.com forward slash The Grief Code and remember, so that I can help even more people to heal. Please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform