Ian Hawkins 0:02
Are you ready, ready to release internal pain to find confidence, clarity and direction for your future, to live a life of meaning, fulfillment and contribution to trust your intuition again, but something's been holding you back. You've come to the right place. Welcome. I'm a Ian Hawkins, the host and founder of The Grief Code podcast. Together, let's heal your unresolved or unknown grief by unlocking your grief code. As you tune into each episode, you will receive insight into your own grief, how to eliminate it and what to do next. Before we start by one request, if any new insights or awareness land with you during this episode, please send me an email at info at the end Hawkins coaching.com. And let me know what you found. I know the power of this word, I love to hear the impact these conversations have. Okay, let's get into it. Got everyone, and welcome to this week's Yes. Elke Hughes, elke, how are you?
Unknown Speaker 1:07
Great. How are you?
Ian Hawkins 1:09
Good. Now, you said this is your virginal podcast experience. So be gentle. Thank you for putting your trust in me to have this first interview. Just because you haven't been interviewed does not lessen the not wealth of knowledge that you have, from all your experiences. I'm very much looking forward to diving deeper into your story and your expertise. So yeah, let's do it. So where do we start? Well, I guess we start here. Those listening won't be getting it on the date. But we are recording this just after 11 o'clock on the 11th of the 11th 22. And we were just talking before we hit record about our our stories around numbers and so on. You say it was 11 years since a pretty major event for you 11 years, for me to the day that I received an email that completely changed my life. So it's pretty cool that both of us are having that goal, which is let's start with exactly that numerology. Like, Have you always had an interest in numbers? Is it? Yeah. Yeah. From one young age
Unknown Speaker 2:26in:
Ian Hawkins 2:53ve gone, but I've been saying:
Unknown Speaker 3:56
definitely, definitely in it, and it's different for everyone. Like, as you said, if it resonates for you, I find that, you know, you can't No matter what anyone says you can't fault it. You know, it's so deep within that. It's like, that's what it is for me. I can't Unbeliev it, I guess. Yeah.
Ian Hawkins 4:17
And once you have a full body experience around that of confirmation of that inner knowing then you don't need anyone else to not validate or discredit you just you just know.
Unknown Speaker 4:28
Absolutely. You just know. Yeah, yeah, cool.
Ian Hawkins 4:33
So you weren't always in the line of work that you're doing now. And I'll get more into your work as an energy healer. So what was the what was the moment in your life that really just stop doing your tracks I guess.
Unknown Speaker 4:52
The moment was when mum called. I was at work and she said She needs to come home. I've got what was her words, they've called me back, they found a lump. And I think it's cancer, and everything, just feeling now, like, everything just stopped. And you drop everything. And you just go because nothing else is. And it was literally that.
Ian Hawkins 5:26
Unfortunately, for many of us, we have to have those moments to realize that that nothing is more important. And it's funny, like, we know what's most important in those moments, but how often are people are running around prioritizing other parts of their life, which should be way further down the list? Yeah, is that is that kind of where you were at at the time,
Unknown Speaker 5:45
definitely, like I was, you know, at the time, I was working in advertising, I was having a great time, you know, talk to my mom a couple of times a week. Actually know at that time, I was actually living with mom, I moved back in with her in the just before Christmas, funnily enough, and she got the call in January. So we actually had just it was I was at this stage of my life where I was 33. And you know, when you you start to develop that relationship with your, with your parents, where you become it gets deeper and I was developing that with Mom where, you know, as a teenager you're you know, your mom's your mom and she tells you all that stuff, but we were starting this amazing relationship and you know, living together was deepening that. And yeah,
Ian Hawkins 6:47
yeah and then everything changes, right. Yeah. Yeah, that's funny. It's a like a similar story for me is like when I was wanting to deepen my relationship with my dad and then when I have children that'll be the time and then like, and then having that moment when you know, I ring a ring home and he answers and he's so excited I was gonna be great. And then 10 months later he's no longer with us and and it's like, just flows you so so what what was that experience like so getting the news you just said like, everything stopped like was it like numbness was it was it your head spinning like what what was happening?
Unknown Speaker 7:36
Like fear shock I have to pinch myself like this is to surreal like this. It's all those emotions in one and then we'll mum lived on the coast like I was living on the coast an hour up, like north and my brother and I jumped in the car the Friday afternoon and took off up and yeah, it was like yes, you numb I was numb, but shock bit scared. I was scared. So much.
Ian Hawkins 8:08
Yeah. The surreal one is a is a great description. I'm not sure I've had someone explained that I had before because it's like this happens to other people. Like, and it's exactly like you described is this? Is this even real? While this can't be real?
Unknown Speaker 8:22
Yeah. And you know, you wake up the next day, and it's like, everything's great. And then you're like, oh, actually, no, it's not. You know? It's yeah. And then you're like, you go through it all the it's it that surreal. Yeah. It's surreal is
Ian Hawkins 8:40
Yeah. That you want to you want to wake up and then have it be something else. But yeah, then you've got to do. Yeah, yeah. So what was that journey? Like? Like, you're living with your mom? So did you throw yourself into supporting him?
Unknown Speaker 8:59
Absolutely. Because I was optimistic. And I've always been of the more you know, your body can heal itself. Everything's in nature, like, you know. Let's look at food and all of that stuff. And, you know, the more natural way. But yeah, I very much threw myself into supporting her. I was still working. And someone was having chemo every week. And I would take her one week, my auntie would take her one week work, you know, I was able to work at home and yeah, it was it was six months of support. And it Yeah, it was six months. And then it was Yeah. It was fast.
Ian Hawkins 9:43
Or really well. Yeah. We will come back to that. I just want to ask a little bit about that, that process of like so in your head, you've got an idea and how it might go. I imagine that everyone involved that Fear element, the person who's sick has a fear that well, is this the right thing? Is that not the right thing? I mean, even though you've got these alternative views, there might be part of you that's doubting that at the time when push comes to shove, Is that about right?Unknown Speaker:
Um, no, I was more as controversial as this might be, I was more doubting the chemo. And what that does? And, you know, were there other alternatives that we could look into, but Mum was very much and very much the healing like the energy as well. I guess for mom, that was quite, it wasn't her way. And, and I think the hardest thing for me, you know, there's lots of hard moments, very defining ones. But one of the ones was, I had to step back, like and understand and realize that this is mom's journey, like, I can't put on her what I want, it's her body. And, you know, I've got to support her in let go of what I think and what I might do, and support her in however she goes, even though I didn't agree with it. But you know, and I also have to let her know that, you know, also, you know, not put the pressure on her and let her know that I didn't agree. You know, you have to hold that in or, you know, get that out some other way. Because you don't want to add that pressure either to her and have her doubt herself.Ian Hawkins:
Yeah. Well, I mean, we know that we have going through this, there's no right or wrong, and you get things right, and you get things wrong. But how you sum that up there is perfect, it's like, it's their journey. And whether it's a an event like this, or just your daily life with the most important people, you can offer up advice if they ask, but ultimately, the more we can let people have their own journey and let go of the the control, the better everything flows anyway. It reallyUnknown Speaker:
does. Yeah, yeah.Ian Hawkins:
So that six months, like, does it feel way too fast?Unknown Speaker:
Look, it's you know, times that thing, right times, it's a funny thing. It did feel fast, because, you know, it's like, you know, and at the time, we didn't know, it was gonna be six months, like at all, we thought she was gonna go into Moorish remission, and none of that. So at the beginning, you know, it was a stage four diagnosis. But, you know, we had hope and all of that. So, yes, it was fast. But the more time I was able to spend with her, there were times slowed down in the moments where we were spending time together are beautiful. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.Ian Hawkins:
It again, time. fascinating thing. It's, we can get too caught in it. But what you described there, that's what presents feels like. Yeah. And it wouldn't matter if that was 1000 days or, or an hour. Like when you're able to have that full presence, then time does slow down. And, and you are just so immersed in it, that that's what life's about. Right?Unknown Speaker:
It's it's incredible. It's such an amazing feeling.Ian Hawkins:
Yeah, yeah. And what a blessing for you to have that time with your mom. Well, it's notUnknown Speaker:
amazing. Yeah. And you know, it's it, I just want to share this. Like, it was really interesting, because I moved back in with her because I wanted to save money. I was going off to Uganda to do mission work. And so I'm like, I'll move back in with mom, you know, we'll spend time together. And you know, and she was missing me. She was living on her own. And so I was like, Yeah, let's do this. And literally, day, you know, a month later. And people were like, Did you guys know? Like, is that why you move back in? And I'm like, No, I just knew that I had to be with mom. And again, it's that knowing like, I knew I had to be there, but I didn't know I thought it was to me, I thought you know, I thought it was to benefit me. But it was really to support her.Ian Hawkins:
Hmm. So that that saying what Hindsight is 2020 but it's also like the joining the dots. Steve Jobs that speech we talked about, you can't join the dots looking forward. But you can join them looking back and whether you put your faith in life or karma or the universe or whatever it is, it's like you the more you can have that trust that there will work out but how amazing is it to look back at that of it because you can as I'm sure we'll get into you can look at grief through all these dark lenses but when you can get to that point where you can find the blessings and the joy in it. Well then that changes the whole situation.Unknown Speaker:
It really does and that's my experience. CrazyIan Hawkins:
so when it gets closer to the date that it still wasn't suddenly like are your mom's pretty sick like was it an ease eat like like I know you said that will happen pretty quickly, but you didn't know but She's still going pretty well then suddenly went downhill or how does it all,Unknown Speaker:
she was going pretty well. And then the chemo wasn't tricky. It was shrinking the tumor, but not as quickly or as much as the doctor would have liked, or the apologists would have liked. So he put her on another chemo, and that she got really sick from that. And, gosh, within a month or two, she was not. She didn't have the energy. And so anyway, it was my turn to take her to chemo. And I had to Wheeler in, in a wheelchair. And the nurses are like, Oh, this shouldn't you know, this shouldn't be happening, what's going on? They admitted her. And a week later, she passed to the day. So that and I have to say, that week in the hospital was it was incredible. It was incredible. Everyone people came, you know, I was in denial very much so and, you know, mum got a bit cranky with me. And she said, you know, you need to, you need to get this this is happening, which in itself is such a strength like to see her like, saying that, to me was shocked me. So I'm like, No, you need to come to terms with this. And I went through my own process. And then once I didn't give up the control that I did have, once I released it, that last week was beyond anything I could have imagined. We had moments, people came. You know, my, my dad and mum divorced when I was 11. And he came, he came in, he actually came in and my stepmom and stepsister and spent the week up on the coast and supported us. You know, they were cooking food and family came in and everyone came and slowly said goodbye. And I can't like I and I can't explain to you how amazing it was. But it was a week. We went in for chemo, and she didn't come out. And I think that was yeah, that was That was intense.Ian Hawkins:
Yeah, tingles all over.
Being able to again, find that, like, you're saying how amazing they want. I remember one of my best mates. He had a really horrific head injury, like the press factories forward, and you go in there, and it's not a position you want to see someone in. Interestingly, he knows it's not great to be in this situation. He goes, but he goes, I don't know if you call it from a spiritual perspective, he said, but the outpouring of love that I've received this week is like nothing I've ever experienced. And it's been great. Yeah, it's like, wow, like I remember barely beat well, it's really stuck in my memory. But like, how do you think like that at that time, like, but when you don't know until you're in the moment, right?Unknown Speaker:
You don't. And I think you said this touched on this before, like, when you release the control, and surrender. Because you get more for me. For me, I got to a point where it was like, okay, days before I was taking sleeping pills because I couldn't sleep. Because I was so scared. And I went through a process of an energy process, and I don't even know how to describe it. But it was definitely a point where I totally surrendered and just went okay, if this is it. I've got to just be present with mum. And you know, my mom, God bless her. She was what I described as an earth angel. She did everything for everyone put everyone first. She was cracking jokes at the end, like through that week. You know, she was just being her full authentic self, which gave us peace. And, you know, I think a lot of a lot of our peace came from her. Which is remarkable. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.Ian Hawkins:
Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Happy for me to talk more about these sort of final moments. Yeah, yeah. So were you there with your mum.Unknown Speaker:
Yes. So you know, a lot of people came people came from Sydney, they can all from all over and say their goodbyes because it was really clear. And I was staying Get the hospital by that point. And the last friend left at about, I don't know, nine o'clock that evening. At this point, she was in her own room. Yeah. And I was sleeping over. And I, we used to have our shows that we watched together, right. And so we were talking and I tucked her in and look at the same time. She's very much on the morphine and, you know, she's there, but not there as well. And so I, you know, got the recliner, moved it over and sat on the chair. And I'm like, okay, cool, Mom, we're gonna watch the show or whatever. The nurse came in and said, You need to call the people that you want to say goodbye, because it's, it's, it's imminent. And I'm just like, hang on, what? What do you mean? Like, we're about to watch our show, like, What do you mean? And so I called my brother. And he's like, what, what do you like, what I'm about to go to bed? You know, like, and not like, I'm about, you know, I don't want to come but it was. Disbelief. Yeah. And he's like, oh, gosh, okay. So, you know, within the hour, he was there. And, and I know, I smile because I, the, the experience was, I'm gonna say spiritual experience for me. And for my brother and sister in law, who aren't, you know, as spiritual as I am. But they have the, you know, they have whatever they have. What they experienced as well was something that we still, like, what happened that night? So, you know, they came and look, I'm gonna go pretty deep into this, because please do not yet. Okay, so, my, my best friends, also a medium. And so, you know, she was along this journey with me. And actually, her, her dad was going through the same thing just was diagnosed ones. So we were in the we were in the room with her. And Mum was she was there. And I don't know if you've? Yeah, she was she was still there. My brother came in and hugged her. And we're talking like someone that's lit like limp. She literally got the strength to lift her arm and pull him in, you know, like, yeah. And, you know, environments. We sat there next to the bed, you know, on one side, on the other side, someone you know, and we just start talking, we started reminiscing about life and sharing stories. And it was really incredible. And this is over. So this is about 1112 o'clock at night, like midnight. And, you know, it was a waiting game. And in those moments, it became so raw and real. And we weren't, you know, sitting around crying and sobbing, we were just reminiscing, we were just, it was it was it was a celebration of who she was and what she created for us. I think that's the best way I can describe it. And my, my mum, I say to mom, because her parents had passed and she she's widowed by her second husband. And I looked down to her and I said, Mum, Nana and Poppy. They're going to they're here and they're going to take you across. It's like, I know.Unknown Speaker:
Wow. And my brother, my sister in law was just like, what just happened? So my best friend I actually called her and I'm like, this is happening. You know? She's like, Yeah, your grandparents, they're like, Okay, and certainly in mom kind of went back into, you know, sleep and everything. And then, you know, so time was going on. And the thing that spins us out to this day I can't explain is, as the time was getting close, so which you know, we didn't know when what MIT but it was getting closer, and the three of us were sitting by the bed, all on their chairs, and we all fell asleep. And all at the same time we fell asleep. And I don't know how long we were out for. But we woke up at all at the same time. And we looked at each other and we're like what's happened? And the energy had shifted in the room. And I'm like, Mom can't breathe like and I called the nurse and like she can't breathe and I felt like I had to get my finger in there and clear her throat. She said no, no, this is it. And within seconds she was gone. Oh it like I can't, I can't ask for a more amazing experience of witnessing a soul leaving and it to be my mom is just beyond anything I could ask for.Ian Hawkins:
The full body experience I just had then I can say I've ever experienced before. And it's, it's just joy. It's like,Unknown Speaker:
yeah, it's joy. It really is. That's how people describe mom. And look, I've had readings and moms come through and people are like, readers are like, Well, I feel this joy. It's like, yeah. Yeah, that's who she is.Ian Hawkins:
So the reason I'm emotional now is because what you're describing it, it's, it's incredible to give the listeners this gift, because this is what it feels like when you have contact in that space from energy. And you can't explain it. And you might be listening going. I don't necessarily believe this, right? Like, I'm struggling to comprehend this. But again, that's the knowing we talked about. It's like, I've had the same moments with my dad. And it's like, you can you can tell me that, you know, believe it. And you can tell me, like, I don't need you to validate it, and I don't need you to dismiss it. I just know what I know. And, like, again, I How did I know the word was joy? Because, because I'm just feeling Yeah, man. And it's like, it's like a relief, times 1000. And it's like, this is what's possible for us if we're prepared to be open to these experiences, really. So thank you for sharing that. Wow, so was that kind of a gateway? Or hack? I can't go any further because now I'm getting like a stabbing in my heart. So generally, with no interview, I tiptoe around it, but I'm just gonna go straight to it for you. So what's the what's the unresolved part of this that's still not sitting right from that whole experience?Unknown Speaker:
Well, after after that, it got pretty. You know, that was an amazing experience. But after that, it got it was hard. You know, I went through the stages of grief, I didn't want to get up in the morning. You know, I vowed I was single at the time. And I thought I'd never get married because mom was never going to be there. You know? You I feel like I went through, we all went through a stage. Because everyone you know, the days after, were a struggle, but you had support. And then, when everyone leaves and you go back to your life, it's like, shit, now. I'm sorry. Now I have to face reality.Ian Hawkins:
Swear what you like.Unknown Speaker:
Now, gotta face reality. Now the thing that I look, my biggest fear, like I said before, the emotion that hit me hard was fear. And it was there was a fear of just being alone. I didn't want to be alone. And I'd moved in with mom. And you know, I think that for me, it was, at this point in my life, my dad and my stepmom, and my stepsister. They had their unit, my brother and his wife, they had their unit, and then it was mom and I. And then all of a sudden, Mom's gone. And it was like, Well, you know, the human side of me went into that. What am I gonna do? I can't go home to mom's home. What am I going to do? Like, and my brother, he just held me and he went, you're coming to live with us? And I like in that, like, I just melted in that moment. I was like, Oh, my word like, yeah. I don't mean to describe that. Yeah. Yeah. And so I felt supported. Like, definitely, but it was, it's the moments when you're alone. But, you know, now I look back and go, I had to go through this alone. stay alone. Yes, you have my best friend. I have my people I have. It's those moments that and look, maybe everyone on some level does go through it alone, like, you know, your internal dialogue. But, you know, I moments I felt alone, and then I threw myself back into work. And then it was like, Okay, I need to get out of here. And I took off to Uganda. So that trip that I was planning, I took off to Uganda thinking I'm gonna save Africa and you know, all that stuff. And I went there to be healed. Like, but it was You know, the first stage because that in itself was a journey, I was on the other side of the world, gosh, right up near the border of Sudan, like in the middle of nowhere. And there were moments where mom presented herself. So I knew she was with me. And, but the grief was still, you know, of course, it was the beginning of the grief process. So that was still there. And I actually, I was then going to Thailand, and I was in Thailand. And I was alone. And I was with a group in Uganda. So I felt very supported and your older women, so I felt like it was very much mom energy. And so that was amazing in the community. And you know, that's a whole other conversation for another time. But I was in Thailand, and I was on my own, and that's when it really hit me. I'm like, Shit, I'm really alone here. And there was one night I was in my hotel room. And I was hysterical. Sobbing, I couldn't stop. And I'm just like, Mom, mom, you know, where are you? Are you and I'm laying there. And I just feel this energy. Hug me, like, spoon me. And I'm like, Oh, my wife's like, you're really here. She engulfed me. And it's like a warm, golden hug. But just you're engulfed by this energy. And it was like, Oh, my gosh, what? You know, she would at any opportunity, she would show herself. So I knew she was there. And that helped. And then you know, and then I got the courage to, you know, and it's 3334. Like, you know, you, you know, it's like, yeah, living alone or married or whatever. But grief stops you, right? Like, it stops you in your tracks. So, yeah. I then had another journey, you know, that I had to go on, which was to Israel. And that was the completion what I feel very much personally, my own self love journey, but also the journey of Completion with the grief with mum, if that makes sense. Yeah. You know, you still have moments like, I still have moments of Christmas, but they're more joy, environment, remembering that getting sad.Ian Hawkins:
Yeah, yeah. Well, so much to unpack there. I don't know if you saw my video that I put out like literally last night about the thing with grief is like exactly what you described, then that so many would identify with that. Two weeks of support, then it slowly dries up or kind of quickly dries up, and then you're left. Going well, now, what do I do? Yeah, what am I do? No one's helping me. I don't know what to do. And, and, like, the trip to Uganda, like, how awesome. I spent six years then running around in circles, like you said, it stops you to stop you. And I think for so many. That's what happens. It's slightly if you can, what I'm getting through this conversation is because you had this belief around energy already. This is what grief could look like, for everyone to be able to move through it quickly to be able to have these experiences like you're describing, and I'm feeling in like, incredible ways. It's yeah, it's like, wow, like, how amazing and then that moment of, of being alone and, and having to face that. And then and then having that, again, that moment of confirmation. Like Like you said, I'd like to hear more about Israel, because you said it was closure because I was again, just literally this morning, like before I was running a bit late because I came from a meeting and we were talking about this, like, my trip to Bali, where it was like kind of like the completion I had. I was given a vision. People have said Were you given hallucinogens and whatever else might Yeah, maybe but again, I know what I experienced. I didn't willingly take anything, but it was a skilled skilled healer, who got taken by someone who knew them and this is like an invite only sort of space and, and having that moment of closure with dad from that. I'm okay. While you can, you can rest assured that I'm okay. And, and I don't know what it's like for anyone else. But for me, it's like until you reach that moment. Like can you get foreclosure? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. So what was it about Israel? That was the final piece for you.Unknown Speaker:
Israel was interesting, actually, because I thought my Uganda disowned my dad's South African We have, you know, way back in our family tree. That you know, our heritage is from Zulu clan. So I've been very attached to Africa. And you know, and I thought that was my place that I was gonna go and heal and look at wasn't it wasn't and, you know, I came to peace with that. And then oh actually before you so I then after after Uganda a year later I left the industry that I was working in and started on the kind of the got more into the energy, like what I'm doing now. We'll get to that though. So but over that time, I took a year off. And I kept seeing Israel, Israel started calling now I felt this I had this calling to go to Israel. And no matter what I you know, wherever I looked, you know, I'd be in the city, you know, the two rabbis walk past me and I'm like, where do you see two rabbis, Sydney, you know, like, things like that. You know, you open the magazine, and there's Jerusalem, right there. It went on for, I don't know, a year. And it got more constant or consistent. And just going, Okay, I gotta go. And I'm like, Okay, I had a friend, I have a friend in Israel. So it made it a little bit easier, because I tell you what, like trying to get into Israel as a what 35 year old female was had challenges in on its own. But once I was there, I had moments like I was, I had had moments of complete peace. In Jordan, and in I was, I was standing by the Sea of Galilee. And by that I actually just before that I was in a church within that area. And you know, if you know the Bible, I'm not on like a don't go to church, but I know parts of the Bible. And so this, this church was built around, you know, the story about where Jesus fed the people with a fish and a loaf of bread. So the rock that he stood on, the church is built around this rock. So, and again, whether you believe or don't believe, is fine. But while I was in that church, I felt things that I can't explain. I soaked like the night back in Thailand, and I'm just sitting there, and it was the most amazing, incredible energy. And then I went from once I finished crying, and I came out of nowhere. And then it just stopped. And it went on for about half an hour. And then I got off and left the church and walked I just followed my I just walked followed my intuition, I guess, or whatever. And I stood and I'm standing by the Sea of Galilee. I'm standing there going, Well, I'm in the middle of Israel, like, this is incredible. And then I felt this presence again. Yeah. Like, oh, my gosh, and then a few other things, you know, happened after that. And it was just, I was, it was where the thing is the thing that feed me that I was scared about most was being alone. And in that trip, I got that I wasn't alone. Be at mom, or something else. I really got a present to that I wasn't alone. And I was in a Bedouin camp overnight. And you know, you can imagine, I just need Petra, I was just the petrol and you can imagine like the stars, like the sky was absolutely incredible. So it's, you know, pitch black, you can see a small campfire can just see the tent and I kind of walked into the darkness. And I looked up and I'm like, looking up at the sky. I think I saw three shooting stars. I've never seen stars like this. And I just, again another Yeah. Now that's how I just felt supported. And I was like, I'm not scared. Like I'm not alone. And he's gone.Ian Hawkins:
Oh, that's, that's okay. They usually explain something that I've had trouble explaining. It's like they will talk about worrying about death and that sort of stuff. And, and then at that point, it's like, when you have those moments we like, just doesn't want Aren't you anymore? Like, but yeah, I know. It's annoying. So good.Unknown Speaker:
Yeah, it's pretty good. We'll see. And then after that, I came back and I met my husband like the following, you know, three months after that, like, you know, it was it was it was incredible because I, I really believed that I had to go through all of that on my own.Ian Hawkins:
Yeah. I was drawn to two things when you're talking about the the energy of that church. I was talking to a client recently, he's describing his experience in a floatation tank. Oh, yeah. And he's lying there trying to force a an experience trying to control the variance, like remind me of Homer. Simpson, when he's doing the same thing. And then suddenly, when you just surrender, whether it's from boredom, or whatever it is, and then suddenly, like, your eyes open, and it was like, I was in a cave in Bali, and again, with a with a spiritual healer. She's like, this is a really magical cave, and it's gonna be an incredible experience. And so I'm in there trying to like being a control freak. Show. Yeah. Okay, cool. This is gonna be great. I just had the experience a couple days before, which was amazing. So I'm like, I caught this is gonna be amazing. This is shit. Like, this is the worst way of ever, what am I doing wrong? And all those different thoughts, and I went, you know what? I've had a pretty good experience. I'll just sit here and write out the time. By the moment I did that full blown visuals. Yeah. What? Yeah,Unknown Speaker:
like crazy, right? But you're just getting out of your head, like with somebody now heads? Again? Yeah, sorry, keep going. You just you've got to cut it to your heart.Ian Hawkins:
Yeah, and for those, if you've made it this far, then you're doing well, because you must be a bit more than curious. But for those who are maybe don't necessarily buy into the spiritual aspect. Look at it from your unconscious, yes, slowing down your mind long enough to tap into whatever that is within you that has this infinite gift to give you visuals, information, feelings, whatever. Now, you don't have to fully understand it. But if you're just open to the fact that regardless of where it comes from, who or what or how you want to describe it is there. And everyone's had the experiences. So thank you so much elke, for for really shining such a bright light on it through your experience. Well, I did not expect this today. But of course. And we deliberately made sure we were having this conversation and 11. So where to from there. So. Okay, well, we've been fully well, we're being fully woowoo. And right out there I've just kept getting irritation down the right hand side of my body, which is usually a mirror of the left. So what when you were talking about your mama was on the left side of the face. And then Israel was the right was like, so left ankle. So So what is significant? Do you know about the left hand side is your what was that?Unknown Speaker:
Sorry, if feminine side? Yeah,Ian Hawkins:
so whatever. You just thought that I just completely took my breath away like as him struggling to breathe? Is that is that is that a link to you? You talked about your mum at the end there not being able to breathe. So what Oh, that's right. We'll come back to it. Why not need to know the answer to that at this point.
Okay, so of all of that experience was Was there a moment or? Or a particular time? Where suddenly just moment of clarity, where you're like, Okay, I've actually got to go on a different path now. Like, yeah, yeah. What moment was that?Unknown Speaker:
It was it was all around. I was after Uganda. Before Israel, and it was like, Okay, I I need to get out of this. But it was it was it was about what's my purpose? Why am I here? What do I need to bring? And it's not I knew it wasn't the industry that I was in and was actually selling in who introduced me to IBM In the Institute of internet, integrative health, and I'm like, I don't, you know, I've always been that person that I'm the listen to people and I, you know, support them through their journey and everything. But I didn't want to go down the counseling route. Like it was, that wasn't, I didn't want to do that it didn't inspire me. But I knew that, you know, it was almost like, the food that you eat, or what, you know, everything in nature can support your health. You know, you can heal, you know, the whole Louise Hay was very much into Louise Hay and, you know, Wayne Dyer and all that. And it's like, okay, I found the thing nutrition. And there's that element of counseling, this is it, this is what I'm going to do. And I, you know, I believed, I definitely, you know, had believed this before, for a really long time, really long time. And I found it. So that was the beginning of that journey was like, Yes, this is it, this is what I'm doing. And a few years before mum passed, I kind of discovered the energy in my, in my hands or not in my hands, because they're not that I was channeling. And I'm like, Oh, what is this and at the time, I had a friend that she guided me through, like, you know, Reiki or energy healing. And so I, you know, I put my hand on someone, and they're like, what is that? What are you doing in my gosh, I don't know. What are you feeling? And so, you know, I started practicing Reiki and all of that. And so I knew there was the Reiki, the energy, I felt energy, I my intuition from a very early age, like 10, if not younger, younger than 10. But I didn't understand it. At that time, you know, and I think when the knowings times you get caught up in? Oh, is that my god? Was that my head? You know, so, it's been a bit of a journey there. But I definitely knew it was around nutrition, energy, how do I bring that together, and it was been it when everything was, you know, the new the new age or, you know, Reiki people didn't really don't have Reiki back then. So, you know, to I didn't, it's like, how am I gonna make an income out of this and leave? You know, my job fully. So I did, you know, I guess I it's been 10 years, it has been 10 years, since I know that that point of what is my purpose, and really defining what it is. And most recently, I completely left as advertising because I did go back corporate money, all that stuff, you know, and I left this year, and I went, I'm now working at a naturopathic clinic. And they specialize in genetics. So they're going deeper than most naturopaths. And what's happening now is, I'm starting to work with them. With some patients, because patients are at a crossroads or this they've stopped, the naturopaths are struggling to get them to the next stage. And everyone is telling them that it's trauma, they need to work on the trauma. And that's what I'm doing with them I'm working with, through energy, I'm working on shifting their trauma, and getting some incredible results, which is very exciting.Ian Hawkins:
So while you were talking, I got you told me your dad, I got like, right ankle pain, or your get my left, but you're right. Like this, and you even mentioned the word support. And it's like it's that masculine, feminine. And there goes my left. It's masculine feminine, support, maybe. I don't know if it's predominantly women you're working with, but it's like, it's like the it's probably a conversation for the two of us after this. But it's like in May, it suddenly made more sense, right? It's like your journey with both your parents. So we don't need to go into the details around whatever your relationship looks like with that, because it's not about that this is your story. But we all have different stories with our parents. And it's like those different elements once we experienced them and we know how to come out the other side. And of course, it's going to make it so much easiest, easier for us to guide other people. So for those who are curious, or maybe I have no idea what energy healing looks like. Can you explain in a way that people might understand some context?Unknown Speaker:
Yes. So Reiki energy healing is you feel energy through, like, if I place my hand on you, you'll feel a comfort warmth, that is a healing. So you literally, I don't necessarily have to be touching you. I could be, you know, or I could be touching either way, it's the same. And it's channeled. So it's not from me, it's three me. Yeah. It's, I mean, it could be that you feel warmth, or a tingle, or you feel like you're being hugged, or you're, you know, that warmth from a bath or when you feel the wind on your body, like it's different for everyone. Yeah, then there's other modalities. So one of my other modalities is psych K, which is working on subconscious limiting beliefs. And this is what I use to shift trauma. How do I how do I explain that? That's bringing your brain back into a whole brain state. And it's done through a balance. And look, magic happens that I can't even explain. But it is very much science and spirituality coming together. And it's like Bruce Lipton, Bruce Lipton, Joe Dispenza. Yeah, a whole epigenetic year conversation. But I get, you know, I have clients that I had a client the other day, where she's like, I'm like, Come and see me, we can shift this. And she's like, Okay, I'm not I've never really done this. But I guess the she had trusted me and she came and she couldn't explain it. But she knew something had shifted.Ian Hawkins:
Or that in itself could be the part that's the key. People want to understand it, they want to be able to explain it. Yeah, some things can't be explained. Have to be builtUnknown Speaker:
different. Yeah, there have to be felt and it's different for everyone you know, but the one thing that's really clear is because I'll say sit in that position until you feel a shift physically, mentally or emotionally. And they, you know, they'll go into that and they've got their eyes closed. They all open their eyes when it's done. And I know that it's done because our muscle test so they know and it's them tapping in when they don't even realize that tapping inIan Hawkins:
again, that's the knowing it's you probably don't even need to muscle tests because you already know Yeah, yeah. And so what you described there every modality I've been to using science, kinesiology, acupuncture or whatever it's been it's those that have mixed the science with the spiritual which which have given me the best results. Yeah, and don't try and dumb down what they do. They just own it for what it is like, here's what I've learned. Here's my all my credentials, years of study but when I bring this element in, like I remember like the first kinesiology test I saw he's like, Oh, he's processing something. And he's like burping and why does that keep happening is auditor I was clearing I'm glad I got I'm glad I got what I got which is coughing rather than because I would imagine that would be but I guess it's a it's whatever it is what it is
have so many so many different thoughts and
You've stumped me That's That's a rarity. Have you Are you familiar with German new medicine? No. Talking about a mixture of spiritual spirituality and medicine as a as a doctor there who his son passed away suddenly and he gets testicular cancer six months later. We talked about this last episode. So those are what listen to every episode. I apologize. We're gonna have the same round but it's good to go over again, and he has well that's not, that's not normal. That's too much of a coincidence. So he starts studying and he does this big, clinical size study of all the people who have had testicular cancer. And he found the common theme, which was a death of a child or pet or a similar sort of death moment. It's like, fascinating. So of course, what did he do? He went instead of study on every single type of cancer, disease, everything same thing, what is the common pattern? Or no, right? And so and so?
Yeah, it looks everything a whole different way. It doesn't mean that we necessarily could have changed. Yang from the bar, some things are just meant to happen. But going forward from today, what can we know? What can we learn from again, something you mentioned, the body talking to us, the body will tell us what's going on. Rather than fighting it and resisting it, and like, we've got to get rid of this pain, or I've got to get rid of this just I can't I just can't be seen. And yeah, and if you don't feel comfortable doing that, then you go to see similar elke who will help you to sit with it so that you can Yeah. Not necessarily understand it, but you will know you will get some kind of confirmation that there's a shift.Unknown Speaker:
Yeah. And the thing is, you know, and I, I know this through muscle testing, your body knows. Yeah, more than, you know, what your mind does when it's there. We hold on to muscle and make it nice. And I just Yeah.Ian Hawkins:
I told my daughter the other week. She's like, What is the answer to something I said, I'll just do this. We'll just in the body pinch on the simple swaying forward or back for a yes or no, she went what she was using any question of like, anything and she's like so excited. She's got herself a pendulum and yeah, the body will talk to us in so many different ways. If we just learn to appreciate you talked about the the temple in, in Israel, and that's where Jesus apparently had a miracle. Wasn't he just the original energy healer? Maybe not even? Maybe not even original? This like it was probably. Yeah, and many before butUnknown Speaker:
back then, right. Like,Ian Hawkins:
ugly. laying hands. Here we have this big figure. Yeah, just my title sets.Unknown Speaker:
It's hard to sense to makeIan Hawkins:
apologies for the religious people do that just. Yeah, anyway. Sorry, not sorry.
Yeah, stumped. Anyway, I don't know where we go from here. So I guess maybe it just, it's the only thing left is where can people find you? And maybe a little bit more about what you what you what the sort of things that your people with?Unknown Speaker:
Yeah, so I Yeah, so I'm in energetic healing facilitator. That's why I'm calling myself my modalities or Reiki psych, K, Integrative Nutrition. I do more in the energy work than there's the nutrition work. But again, you know, it, everything's got to be balanced, right. So depending on the person, I'll look at all all aspects. I work so I have my business, but you're happy that you can see there. And I have a website. And I look this this very much is focused on the self love the self acceptance and all of that. However, the trauma is the thing that even though people will come to me for, something's up, I don't know what it is. At the end of the day, it's trauma. And when we talk about trauma and PTSD, you know, I used to relate PTSD to war veterans. Yeah. PT, paramedics, cops. And go, you know, I can't say that I've got PTSD because I don't experience on that level. But at the end of the day, it's all relative, right? So we all have trauma, whether it's through grief through, you know, that dog that beat you when you were five, and you haven't now you're scared of dogs and you don't know why. So it's, once we clear the trauma, then it's time to heal. So, that's, that's what I'm working on with people. So I have my business but you're happy, and I also work at a naturopathic clinic clinic called MTHFR. Our support, and I'm working with naturopaths. They'reIan Hawkins:
awesome. And we'll make sure you we get your links there in the notes so people can find them. The what you touched on there with trauma is like everyone experiences PST, PTSD. Think about what we've just been through the last few years collectively, like, no one was unscathed from that. No way. It was something that was brought to your attention. Whether it was like realizing that maybe you don't wanna be rushing around in your life anymore, maybe you lost your job, maybe you found a new job, whatever it whatever it was, there is something there and all reiterate what I've been seem to be doing nearly every conversation at the moments like this does not mean that you've got some deep dark secret that you will find out if you do this, it's not how it is, it's like, there'll be something really quite minor that that is causing you trauma, in inverted commas, because of a pattern of behavior that still play out. That's the shift.Unknown Speaker:
Yeah. And look, it may not it this is the thing, it may not look, you the person may not relate it as a traumatic experience. It could be, you know, the smallest thing and you've touched on this before as well. You someone said something to you, and you turned it into something else. And that's now your subconscious limiting belief. It's the what, it's the we work, I work on the things that you don't know, that are there. And it's just it's digging to find out through conversation, where you're getting stopped because you hear it right. Like you would hear it with with clients where they're getting stopped. And even though they don't realize, and you you know, when you work on that, and it's like, well, magic happens.Ian Hawkins:
Yeah, it's it's why we both know that it's important to get help elsewhere as well, because you can't see it when you're in it. Yeah, you can reallyUnknown Speaker:
count on me as well. Like, I'm sure, yeah. You got it. Yeah, you're I've got my person you've got your personIan Hawkins:
100% LP Well, what a conversation thank you for sharing so openly about what just an incredible experiences and what what a blessing for you to have have gone through that in such a positive space and be able to help your family with that through that. And then yeah, thank you for sharing the, your journey back after going through that grief. Amazing. That was like, that was an experience for me. I gotta say. They all are in a unique ways, but that one from a full body experience who wanted to rest after that. Thank you.Unknown Speaker:
Thanks for having me.Ian Hawkins:
You're welcome. Via first time you. You enjoy the experience is fantastic. Great. Thank you. Well,
I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Grief Code podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Please share it with a friend or family member that you know would benefit from hearing it too. If you are truly ready to heal your unresolved or unknown grief. Let's chat. Email me at info at Ian Hawkins coaching.com You can also stay connected with me by joining the Grief Code community at Ian Hawkins coaching.com forward slash The Grief Code and remember, so that I can help even more people to heal. Please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform