Becoming Comfortable In Your Own Skin with Andrea Gullick

Ian Hawkins 0:02

Are you ready, ready to release internal pain to find confidence, clarity and direction for your future, to live a life of meaning, fulfillment and contribution to trust your intuition again, but something's been holding you back, you've come to the right place. Welcome. I'm a Ian Hawkins, the host and founder of The Grief Code podcast. Together, let's heal your unresolved or unknown grief by unlocking your grief code. As you tune into each episode, you will receive insight into your own grief, how to eliminate it and what to do next. Before we start by one request, if any new insights or awareness land with you during this episode, please send me an email at info at the and Hawkins coaching.com. And let me know what you found. I know the power of this work, I love to hear the impact these conversations have. Okay, let's get into it.

Welcome, everyone, and welcome to this week's guest, Andrea Gullick. Andrea, how are you?

Andrea Gullick 1:09

I'm very well. Thanks, Ian, how are you?

Ian Hawkins 1:11

Going? Well, thank you. Now I'm particularly drawn to the work that you do. Helping people to be comfortable in their own skin. And that's something that I can very much relate to. And I think back to being a teenager and are awkward and uncomfortable. I was is that something you can identify even back that far, like your own journey about not being comfortable in your own skin? Or has it been more and something that's come to you as an adult?

Andrea Gullick 1:44

I think it's definitely connected to further back, like our own journey. Usually, for the most part, we go into work, maybe to kind of heal the aspects of ourselves from time gone by so definitely, even as a child really probably. And then through the teenage years of obviously quite sensitive when you're sort of developing that sense of identity. So yeah, absolutely. It's not I think the the adulthood and the experiences in adulthood only really heightened the realization of how comfortable I was or wasn't within myself.

Ian Hawkins 2:23

Hmm. Oh, I love that. That's actually a really great description of the work that I do is the unresolved and the unknown is all of those pieces of the puzzle going way back when we tend to associate with the stuff that happens to us now, which is normal. But it's that all of those related things, when one of my coach talks about the grief upon the grief upon the grief upon the grief are like sort of all adds up. And I was gonna ask about what was kind of that moment, because I know you've had a few really big moments in your adult life. But what was the of all the different things that have unfolded? What was the big one that had you suddenly realizing there was all this stuff there that that needed to be brought to your attention?

Andrea Gullick 3:11

In terms of from younger or from or just whenever what was the biggest moment?

Ian Hawkins 3:16

Yeah, what was the biggest moment?

Andrea Gullick 3:19

The Bs moment, even though there were really big moments in terms of realizing how comfortable I am in my own skin was probably the first relationship that ended after I became widowed. That was really defining moment for me of feeling like I wasn't enough. And realizing why did I feel like that?

Ian Hawkins 3:45

So because you were able to walk away or because like, what what was it that had you having that realization,

Andrea Gullick 3:55

the realization so it wasn't on my terms. So I wasn't the one that actually walked away. And it was that realization of that I was too broken the belief system that I was too broken and I was too much or not enough or too emotionally inept, to be loved. And it was that was a really devastating moment. And yet, like and that might sound really strange because I was widowed. I was widowed at 27. You would think that that would be the most devastating and it was the most devastating moment of my life. But in terms of an aha moment of what are you doing? Why have you lived your life like this believing that you there is something not complete with you that there's something wrong with you, unless you have someone that is willing to share their life with you. And it was that they're comfortable in your own skin? That was the moment of why Our tie.

Ian Hawkins 5:01

Now, really important, I think, to point out for people listening is that we all have these big moments from our life. And there's no comparison when it comes to grief. And there's no one's bigger than the other one's bigger than or smaller, or whatever. It's like, it's all heartbreaking. And it's all really intense. When we talk about moving forward from grief, there's usually that one moment that has us looking at life completely differently, right. And, and I love how that's beautiful, beautifully aligned with the work that you do now. And I think that's really important. Because when that's the wake up call, then it pushes you down a path that perhaps at times, it feels like you're out of control. But it's like, it just feels right, the phrase going home sort of comes to mind.

Andrea Gullick 5:52

It's so interesting, because the first I was planning to go back to Victoria to do my first speaking engagement that I had organized so that I was going to have a speaking engagement back in Victoria. But obviously lock downs, and it was called coming home owning your magnificence. And it was it was that in terms of realizing that I didn't know who I was, like in terms of when you say pushes you down, say pads or rabbit holes or whatnot, these defining moments, what it actually did was draw me closer to me. Because I needed to know me, I wanted to know me, I wanted a relationship with me. That felt safe, because I'd never had that.

Ian Hawkins 6:41

Yeah, well, so wins when you talk about that relationship ending not on your terms. Did it? Was it mainly just about that relationship ending and your own relationship with yourself? Or did that bring up a whole lot of other stuff around? Like you said that you've been widowed and and other elements from your past at that point? Or what what how did that all unfold?

Andrea Gullick 7:04

I think it was just the this spotlight on being able to reflect back over my journey over my life as a teenager, and how I related myself with relationships, all I ever wanted to do was get married and have children like that was absolutely the only thing that I ever aspired to do. And, and it's in a really important role that we play. But it is a role that we play. It is not who we are necessarily start and stop. And so I began to recognize that it was just a void. And I absolutely adored my first husband, I loved him, he was my everything. But there was this element of recognizing that there was a void that he was filling, there was a confidence void. There was a loneliness void, there was a those voids that he filled, that then when he passed away, they were quite, it became quite apparent, but I then filled the void again, because I moved into another relationship. And so it began, I began to recognize that I was just, I was plugging these holes. And that's why I felt fulfilled within my marriage. But if you if the marriage is then over, whether it's someone's divorced, or I was obviously widowed, then what in so it was really just such a spotlight because I felt so shattered and so unlovable and so afraid to be on my own.

Ian Hawkins 8:49

Now, we've done the short version, and you've had time to look back at it and like a lot of people who are in this space, you can identify all these things now. But take me back to those moments when that was all first unfolding and, and how that impacted you like what was going on for you mentally, emotionally? Probably physically too.

Andrea Gullick 9:14

So the day that I knew that it was overpriced Sure. I went home and I curled up in a ball on my bed, I had two little boys to take care of as well. But I kept up on a ball and just felt the feels of what it was to really be lonely because I had never really dealt with the loss of my husband. I did a lot of things. I renovated a house. I went to uni, then down the track, I started a relationship and so all of those things happened relatively quickly within the first 12 months. And so there was not a great deal of space to one I accept and acknowledge and deal with my grief. But also accept and acknowledge me as, as me. And so I laid in bed and was quite distraught feeling like, if this person couldn't love me, because this person did know me, and knew my husband quite well, that if they weren't able to really wrap their head around my situation, then no one was going to be able to. And it was quite the pity party, let me tell you, it was quite the pity party. And but as I laid there, feeling like I was going to be on my own forever, and feeling that rawness of that. He was like a voice from outside of me, but I now know that it was my soul. And I heard your happiness is your responsibility. And that was the most defining moment of realizing that for my whole life, up until that point, I had looked to the external, and all the pieces of the puzzle the way I wanted them to be, that would make me happy. And it was this 360 Spin, where I began to realize that actually, that's an inside job.

Ian Hawkins: 11:25

And the muted for the benefit of everyone else. And the catch I got in my throat, from coughing at his hands, like, that's a really important part of your story. But also important for other people to hear is like.

There are different things that happen over the journey. And when it all sort of that's coming together and like all sorts of compounds, and they all sort of come to that one point. That's when that's when it can be the most challenging, right? When you when you've sort of got it's almost like all those ropes that you hung on to get pulled away. And then you're left grasping it at air. So So what did you grasp onto? Initially? What did you? Or did you reach out to someone? Did someone show up for you? Like, what was the thing that got you back to some form of balance?

Andrea Gullick: 12:27

Think at that time? No, it was further down the track that I reached out for that. But at that time, it was just the thing that I really grabbed on to was the awareness that it was up to me. And I was the one that was in control of this, it wasn't in control of me. And that I want to be happy and that it was okay to choose things that made me happy. So I did, I reconnected with a friend in Melbourne, I went down to Melbourne, I caught up with her, I had a lovely time. And I just began to make conscious decisions about what my future would look like which meant making big decisions about where I was living because my I was on my in laws farm at the time, my husband was the farmer. So we lived on the farm and began to really start to listen within for what did and didn't feel right anymore in my journey. And that I mean that created its own set of internal quagmire in itself was a nose people pleaser. So the pressure of upsetting and disappointing people was was pretty intense. But I literally grabbed on to listening and following what what I felt like I was being guided to do.

Ian Hawkins: 14:00

So good. I can certainly relate to that people pleasing and the exhaustion that goes with having to do that being everyone to everyone did everyone. I just want to come back to something you said before because I felt like it was probably a big thing at the time, but probably I know it'd be big for other people as well. So you said you it felt like such a life move forward quickly after your husband passed away. There is no right or wrong there just is what it is. But was there a part of you that felt guilty or whether they there was you were doing something not quite right or was it more than just you're just in complete avoidance by getting yourself busy with renovating your house and all those different things?

Andrea Gullick: 14:54

Well, I think I think the two are combined. I think that it was literally You're getting busy. The distraction, I mean, it's first class case of distracting yourself from that feeling, it was much easier for me to look forward than to sit where I was in that moment of what my life had become. Because it was just horrific. And so the distraction but of course, the choices I made in terms of distracting myself, some of those bought me great satisfaction, like I'm very proud that I went to university, and I'm very proud that I got my degree, and renovating the house was fun, I guess. But then there's gonna be other aspects. So there were other aspects where it didn't, it literally didn't. I knew I didn't know at the time I was doing it to survive. But there was so much internal messiness for me, in terms of being in another relationship. And it was that that was really eating my soul.

Ian Hawkins: 16:01

Tell me a little bit more about that internal messiness.

Andrea Gullick: 16:05

Well, I guess it's just like the word you use before this guilt. And what does this mean? That questioning myself did? Did I actually love my husband? If I loved my husband, why am I with somebody else? And why would I be with somebody else that is closely aligned to him and the world can say, the world told me there were people that told me that that's really common, it's really common that people end up with someone closely. Because you're grieving at the same time and things like that, it brings you closer together. But that didn't appease the discomfort within myself. And, and the hidden discomfort within myself because we become amazing chameleons and mask wearers. And we can make it look like well, we're just doing what we're doing and getting on with it. But there probably was very few times where it felt within me, like that was what I shouldn't be doing.

Ian Hawkins: 17:09

I'm not sure why this came to mind. But it did. So you did say that you happy for the conversation as to go went? The thing I was drawn to was like, you talked about the guilt of a new relationship and that internal messiness. I was drawn to like how that must have been from a physical perspective, like so. You've lost your husband, and now you've got a new relationship. Was that challenging at all? Like, Was it weird? Like, I can't comprehend that whole situation. So you're suddenly here people that have amplified the guilt of them that you're kissing another man when? When it's? Yeah. helped me make sense of what I'm trying to spit out Adria?

Andrea Gullick: 17:53

Yeah, I guess. So if I can be 100% honest with you. I didn't, I never stopped to really, I never really stopped to think about that. It was just, it was such a survival mechanism, I think and it was such a relief from the pain and from the, the fear, like in terms of now being the sole parent to so my, my new my baby was eight months old, and my eldest was three when their dad passed away their the, the weight of responsibility, and the the grief and the trauma was so intense. That it was such a relief. I just didn't think about it. It just and I haven't, I guess I haven't really thought about that. It just, I'm a Scorpio. So I'm pretty passionate type of person anyway. So

Ian Hawkins: 18:56

is there any anything there that you then look back at? Now yourself? No, no, you look through very much like everything's perfect. But like, if you're honest with yourself as a party that looks at who you were, then and actually gets frustrated or wonders why you reacted like you're reacting.

Andrea Gullick: 19:13

Yeah, there's been plenty of times that I wished that I had been stronger and that I could have stood in my own and stood on my own and dealt with my grief or my trauma in that moment, because it only really, only really press pause on it. And from an external perspective, it could look like I got my shit together pretty well. But I only ever press pause on it, and then further down the track when life has settled and I was remarried then and had our daughter, all of the stuff that I didn't deal with. It just came flooding back. And so I've ended up with mental health twice, like I haven't had mental health diagnosed mental health, like, whatever your thoughts are on mental health, but after my daughter was born, I did suffer post traumatic stress disorder, and anti postnatal anxiety. And I believe that is because I didn't integrate the experience within my body I just expected

Ian Hawkins: 20:25

Hmm. I have no thoughts on, like, people will call things, whatever they call them. It's like it's whatever's going to help you get better like for those people listening, like what whatever works was whatever works. What I know is that all of these different things that we have in our later years are linked to things that are unresolved to grief trauma. Yeah, it's just it all comes flooding back to the surface, that it shows up in different ways. Now we've we've created different labels to make sense of it for people and also helps with different diagnoses and all that sort of stuff. That's a whole other rabbit hole. But I'm very much a, you've got to find what works for you. So I'm not a fan of like people saying you can't do this, you can't do that. Yeah, I've been down that path before. It doesn't, doesn't, it's not helpful for anyone. So if you look at like, from that perspective, all those things from the past. I'd really love to hear how then you know that some of those patterns were formed. So if you always wanted to be married, was that because and have children is that because that's what was modeled to you wasn't modeled to you from some other experiences that instilled that you're not even sure why were there was a strong desire for that.

Andrea Gullick: 21:54

So at the time, I had no clue at the time, I thought I was just born like that I just was maternal. And that's what, that's what I wanted. The older I've got, the more the patterns, the more comfortable in my own skin I've become in terms of being radically honest with myself and my my life and my childhood. I think it comes down to that, that would prove that I that I was enough like to have someone fall in love with me and want to marry me and have their children, then that would mean that I was important. And that it was that although it was invisible, it was just searching for someone to fill the void of not being able to recognize that I was enough just as I was. Whatever that is, and the safety, the safety of my I love heart. And like I love to love, but I just think love is amazing. And connection and deeply connected, connected relationships, I think the most amazing thing that we can experience. But I never had that with myself.

Ian Hawkins: 23:09

Now usually, that sense of safety comes from something specific. For me, it's like things like when my younger brothers would have come home from hospital or feeling a disconnect. Right? So a safety was what I knew of me, being the youngest. And then me being the second youngest and all that gets thrown out the window as more more children come. There are different incidents like when, when I was having someone else look after me, like where I was just fearful, not necessarily for any, any deeper than the fact that I would rather have been with my mum than then getting looked after. But do you draw any links there to that? needing to have that connection? Like was? Was there a safety element you can identify with?

Andrea Gullick: 24:02

Yeah, well, it was never safe in my house, that's for sure. In turn, I knew that I was loved. But there were definitely elements of my family structure, that it wasn't safe to be who I was, because I was kind of in the way I think. And and that's my interpretation. I understand that. The interpretation and the experience that other people in my family have been they'd probably say the same thing about me. But I absolutely it was it was not there was not necessarily unconditional love within my household. And I think that I just wanted the safety to know that it was okay to be who I was. And obviously all of this was unconscious. Like I didn't know it at the time, but I reflect on it now and I'm like, it was absolutely not safe to be me.

Ian Hawkins: 25:00

Now I did ask before if there's any way you didn't want to go, and you were happy to go wherever it went. So like when when you say that like unsafe? Was it because you got shut down was it for me a lot, a lot of it was comes back to the emotional reactions from my parents, which both fueled me because that's how I, like had taught myself to get connection, but also probably didn't have that effect. What was it some other elements that played out that had you saying even now that it wasn't safe?

Andrea Gullick: 25:36

For me, personally, it comes down to sibling rivalry. And that I don't think it was safe for either of us, certainly myself or my sister, I don't think I would almost guarantee that she would probably say it wasn't safe to be here, either. So that unconsciousness within our family environment and probably not really modeled in a way that it's okay to be and it's okay to be able to communicate how you feel, I always felt like I struggled with that, that there was no real depth to conversate there was there was yelling, and I was fighting and there was arguing, but there was no one necessarily sat down and said, Tell me how you feel what what is going on for you right now it that the emotional side of things was was sort of shut down in a way

Ian Hawkins: 26:31

I can relate to that. And for me, I just remember being left with the feeling of just don't get me they don't understand me and, and a lot of ways that continued well into my adult years, just like they're like. Yeah, why? Why do they not understand where I'm coming from? I don't know if that resonates with you.

Andrea Gullick: 26:50

Probably more. Now, when I reflect on it. I didn't understand me, either. Like, I definitely know that. I felt like I was a bit of the odd one out because I was I didn't feel like I would have preferred to have talked about things or hated the fighting and the arguing and things like that. But even now into adulthood, knowing that there's no real awareness of why I did the things that I did. So the things that I did, because we're guilty of doing things that probably lead to upsetting people, there's no awareness of, I felt just as insecure as what you did. But it just showed out in a different way.

Ian Hawkins: 27:37

Yeah. And that's so important to emphasize, if anybody's got siblings and, and like you said, if you ask your sister, she coming from a different perspective, I know, that's definitely the case for my siblings. Well, of course, we're all going to have our own unique experience through our own unique lens through our own you unique way of being ourselves. Plus all of the things we add on with the trauma and the grief, it's important to remember or to, to really highlight that when we get into these adult years, and then we wonder why there's like a disconnect, or we can see things from their perspective, or, or whatever struggles we have in our relationships with, with siblings, or even close friends or parents later in later life. It's just knowing that it's no one's fault. Like, these are just moments from when we are young brain is doing its absolute best to make sense of whatever it's going through and comes back to that place of safety. Right? We, we, we usually default to a behavior that we feel is going to be safe. I talked before about my why our emotional reaction was safe in the sense that got attention. If you look at that, own your own journey, as you said, you are not in a space where you felt safe to be yourself. What sort of behavior pattern played out for you that allowed you to bring some feeling of safety into you into your experience

Andrea Gullick: 29:17

I think it was the well and I don't think it was the attention thing. That and definitely, as long as I was better than someone then I was okay. And so you can imagine how that plays out between siblings. As long as I was better than her. I was okay. And that is that I just I I wanted to be better. And that was because I recognize now because I didn't feel enough and so to feel enough was to ensure that I was at least better than that. And And, and absolutely did things that would have highlighted that. And I'm very aware that that was how I felt safe. And that that that wouldn't have been comfortable to live with.

Ian Hawkins: 30:17

No and you use you speak from someone who's done a fair bit of this work on yourself, like when I when I first started out on this and and start making the changes at first you're like, Ah, well, why couldn't they see this white light all externalizing right and blame and all that sort of stuff. But the more you do, the more you realize that. Yeah, man, like I must have been really, really difficult to live with, I must have been really difficult. Like, not just in younger years, but teenage years, early adult years, I'm sure my wife would agree with most of this, by the way, but all these different things. And it's like, the moment you take full responsibility for all those things that changes everything.

Andrea Gullick: 30:57

Yeah, and as you're speaking in, it's this, the only real way to become comfortable in your own skin is to acknowledge the light, the dark and the in between, I'm I was that that is part of my personality, I have had moments even as an adult where I, I want to look better, or I want to do better or whatnot, there's those moments of inadequacy or insecurity that play out. But there's that realization of why and then how to manage that in a way that doesn't, doesn't impact those around me, I guess. But as a child, and as a teenager, when you are just developing your identity, and in safety is paramount. Yeah, then it can be pretty intense time. But absolutely, I'm also not going to sit here as a 40, nearly 44 year old woman and say that there's not absolutely amazing aspects of who I am to that would have been quite favorable as a sibling. It's like Bob Gibson says it's both and it just is both and, and that, to me, is the path of becoming comfortable in our own skin.

Ian Hawkins: 32:15

And that duality that you talked about, then it's like that these things are present. And all the all the time, like, it can be two different things that can be when we're talking about grief. And we'll get into more around when you when you lost your husband, it's like, it can be deeply heartbreaking and intense and awful. But at the same time, there can be humor and joy and all of those different emotions, like, that's okay. And, and they can be times where you feel like you heading in the right direction and things going well. But at the same time, there can be parts of your life that are just falling apart. Like, that's just how life goes right?

Andrea Gullick: 32:55

And I think on that, and to the thing that I really want to express is that along the path and within my journey, the realisation that those aspects are those things that we do for safety or whatever it was, we're just talking about. They are things that we do. They are not who we are. Yeah. And being able to recognize there's a difference, like at the absolute essence of us, as human beings is a divine spark. There is that pure oneness and that divinity. And as we go through our life, yes. Did I do things that caused possible harm? Or did cause distress or Absolutely, they had things that I did? But they're not who I am? Yeah. I just think it's a really important thing for people to remember because sometimes we can do this work and you feel the guilt or you feel that it's important that we we know how to hold those emotions, but that they don't, that that's not our identity.

Ian Hawkins: 34:07

Yeah, absolutely. We all make mistakes. They're all things that we do. They're all behaviors that we have, but yeah, it's not who you are. It's not your fault, either. Like these are, like I said before, these are patterns that are formed at quite a young age and how can we possibly be have any any blame around something like that? It's like it's, yeah, it's not healthy, and it's not beneficial. So like I mentioned at the start, you've had some big moments and and so 2003 Your, your two day year old son gets a pretty intense diagnosis. But what did you kind of know something was wrong from the moment he was born?

Andrea Gullick: 34:51

Not necessarily. I guess being my first child. I didn't really know what to expect. So the birth had been relatively intense because like Like he said he was, he was born with a tumor, the size of a grapefruit in his abdomen. So trying to get into the fetal position was going to be somewhat challenging. And so he couldn't. So the very next morning, so like four or five hours after he was born, our pediatrician came in to explain to us that he would need to have scans and be in a special care unit and lots of not planned conversation occurred in less than compelling with and company ways. When people talk about bedside manner, this doctor literally completely missed the boat on any sort of bedside manner. So yeah, to find out that he first was going to have a scan on his brain because they thought he might have had brain damage. And then to bypass that, because that was fine into actually, he's got a massive tumor in his stomach. And we think it's malignant was not necessarily what I put on my wish list for first time mom.

Ian Hawkins: 36:11

I can't speak from being a mother, but from just being a parent, like that's just such a roller coaster experience anyway, but you throw that into the mix. How did you get through that time?

Andrea Gullick: 36:30

Primarily, excuse me, primarily, I got through that time because of the man that I married. And because I was quite the emotional one, I was the one that would always worried about everything. What if this happens, what if that happens, and and he had always had the famous line, you can't worry about what you can't change. And so I leant in on him. And we, we got through it together. We had amazing support in terms of family, we had amazing support in terms of our community with fundraising and things like that. So on that side of things, we knew that we were safe within that. But Emotionally, it was primarily because because my husband and his, his staunch, stand strong, non emotive protect that allowed me to fall apart when I needed to.

Ian Hawkins: 37:30

Hmm, awesome. Well, awesome that he was able to be there. Like that for you. I'm just gonna ask this because it came up. You mentioned guilt earlier. Is that Is there a part of you that when your son's born, and there's something going on that that feels like, Well, did I do something to contribute to this? Like is that the sort of thought that goes through your head

Andrea Gullick: 37:58

when we sat with the pediatrician because our baby had gone to Melbourne from our local hospital the night before? So we were 24 hours before we went. And of course, we thought he had a hernia or something like we literally had no clue what they were talking about. We were not told until we arrived. And I didn't even know a baby could be born with cancer. And I had no idea whatsoever that that was even possible. So it was certainly not on that maybe it's so when we were sat down and everything was explained to us what they potentially thought it could be. I'd been a smoker in my teenage years and young adulthood and whatnot. So of course, the first question I asked was, Is this my fault? Like, is it because it I because I was a smoker, but I passed this on to him and they assured me it was not my fault. But there's always add as a baby. How does a baby tumor the size of a grapefruit that you have grown within you? Like what is it? What environment? Did I produce for that baby to then have that growing within him? And I can't say that I've weld on it. I really didn't dwell on it, too. Like when they said no, it wasn't your fault. It was just what do you have to do what we have to do? Let's get on with it.

Ian Hawkins: 39:21

Yep. I have heard that when a baby's going through the pregnancy there is a healing that takes place for the mother and that's part of the light from one another it's evolution or I can't remember where I read this or mirror was more a spiritual perspective, but it's basically it's a it's a healing exercise for the mother in itself. So I don't know how that sits with you. But like to me what what a great gift from your child. I know now that when they Born, they absolutely take you on a healing journey because they nothing shows up. Your self confessed failings and inadequacies quite like having children no matter what they are AJR. But yeah, I don't know how you how you feel about that was a blessing for your child to come in and have that positive impact for you.

Andrea Gullick: 40:25

I can't say that I have ever sat with that and thought about that. But I know that that element of healing or the element of meaning of the journey that, I guess I took away, was more so the way that I looked at how my husband dealt with that, and, and our son in terms of his nearly 19, and fit and healthy and an absolute legend, so also watch him go through what he went through. And babies and children absolutely amazing. Like they are so resilient. And they definitely have so much to teach us about how to just get the job done. Yeah. And that it was that combination of watching him be so he was my easiest baby in terms of the most content baby, he was so easy. And but also watching my husband and I have said on numerous interviews before that, I really do believe that my husband was teaching me how to survive his his death through how he managed our son's illness. Because that you can't worry about what you can't change was what I literally had to keep coming back to every time I got really shaky that I have to because I had the potential and I know I had the potential for who I was, and how I was raised. That that could have been the absolute ending of me that that could have just been all my goodness, like the look and everything that's happened to me, and I would have just played straight into that victim role, and literally let that suffocates any life out of me. And in the complete opposite as far as I'm concerned.

Ian Hawkins: 42:14

Yeah, well, what a blessing. So it's interesting that you say that, like, you know, you can't do anything about what you can't control. You said before we jumped on that. You've always got a sense that, that your husband was going to die because of a number of different things. Have you reconciled that in a way that you think well? Could I have done something? If I knew was coming? Could I have done something?

Andrea Gullick: 42:42

And I don't I it's not like I was given a time or date or a picture of this as what will happen. It was a sense that he was connected to his uncle in a more significant way than just uncle a nephew. And his uncle had passed away in a car accident. So this feeling that I had was that I feel like that could happen to him. And I would get so upset. I only ever told him because I'm not going to run around telling people that they lock me up thinking I'm crazy. But I would tell him, I just have this feeling something's going to happen in I would cry and be distressed. And he'd be like, it's fine. I'm here. We're called Ori, emotional woman, you know. And but when the accident occurred, and the police told me where it had happened, it was the same intersection as his ankle in the same circumstances. And so, for me, I was like, I wasn't just worrying about him in this wasn't just needing to get my emotions under control. This was a sixth sense of this, then I didn't recognize was that until all the pieces of the puzzle lined up. And it was, yeah, like I was just I guess I was blown away in so many ways. But how can this be that?

Ian Hawkins: 44:11

I don't imagine that makes it any easier to deal with. But it must have just added an extra whole other dimension of confusion and grief by having a look, it's almost like a prophecy coming to be.

Andrea Gullick: 44:27

I think it was it was probably more so down that track. It actually showed me the power that we have beyond just our human experience that well that was an absolute tragic way of realizing that we have we have Intel that is beyond our knowledge and beyond our intellect we have the ability to connect with energy that that does guide us in ways it, okay, it didn't guide me in a way that I could protect him from what happened. But it proved to me that we know things beyond the realm of this physical realm. And that's, that's what is really super important to me for for people. That's how we get comfortable in our own skin is to be able to recognize these innate, this innate wisdom that we actually all carry within us. Yeah. And it opens up into that, I guess my journey is has evolved into recognizing that we are all on our own path, and there wouldn't have been anything that I can do to change that situation. That is what was destined to play out my son's illness was destined to player, if I'm meant to fall asleep tonight and not make up, I'm destined for that.

Ian Hawkins: 45:54

Yeah. And I'm a fan of that as well. I'm pretty sure you know, Karen Chaisson she was on here, a fair while back talking about her son who passed away when he was 19. And, and she looked at like this. She looked at a lot of this. Apologies and scratching my leg. She sat down with her son, before they came into this world and talked about this is how it's gonna go down. And this is why and if you believe in that idea of that, you know, the soul has an evolution as well. That fits beautifully. But if you even if you don't have that sort of belief, it's there are certain things at play that we can't understand whether you however you look at the spiritual aspect of life, whether you're an atheist or any anything else is, there are certain things that unfold that we just feels like it's meant to be. And by looking at life like that, there's just so much peace, and it releases so much of the worry, right? When we can just realize that, well, I could spend all this time worrying about all the different possibilities that could happen, like you describe that you were prior to going through all of this, or you can just put your trust in something, whether it's the universe, whether it's karma, life, that you get what you need, even if it's not what you think you want.

Andrea Gullick: 47:30

Yeah, and I think that, I guess, for me, in terms of that, recognizing that I felt like I knew, when I didn't actually know is that as the years have, have progressed, it, it works in the reverse, too, in terms of being able to create the things, the being able to, there's been numerous times when I've sat and connected and become very conscious of what it is I'm wanting to call in. And no things have arrived, they, you know, you can call it a manifestation or you can call it what you want, I just know that when we are connected to that source energy, and it is in alignment with who we are, that we can literally move mountains quite easily.

Ian Hawkins: 48:23

Yeah, I love that. From from those who like the science of it, we we have billions of bits per second that come into our awareness every every second of the day, but we can only process a certain amount. So the more that we can tune into what it is that we do want and to that higher self that you mentioned, where we get guidance, whether you call it soul, whether you call it Yeah, your intuition, or just the very best version of you, if you can be aware of both of those things, and give your brain and clearer focus on what to focus on. You can absolutely invite in anything by having that clear focus, the brain will do the rest. And I want to know from you because you mentor people how do you help people to one identify that which is already within them, and then how to actually have the courage to act on it when when the guidance comes through.

Andrea Gullick: 49:31

So I guess it's in being able to help them recognize that they hear things that they sense things that they feel things that there is more than just how do I stop doing this? Or how do I do that? It's this communion between us and our higher self and you can if you take a moment so we to be quiet and just ask you, you hear the answer. You'll feel it You'll sense it. The thing And then I guess what I've realized is that everybody can do it. It's just that we don't take the time to create the space to listen. And so a lot of what people are tuned into people know they're tuned into, because they know they hear, I'm shit, it's not going to work. It's not. So we're hearing stuff, right? We can identify with that. But do we ever pause to say, is that true? And if that is not true, what is true and start to listen for? What is true about who I am? What is true about what is happening in this situation? What my measure stick between peace and pain? Is the thought the the the action, the sutra? Is it taking you closer to peace or pain? Because peace is truth, our truth feels peaceful.

Ian Hawkins: 50:58

Love that you identify with the times that you treat yourself, awfully. So you already know, you've got that awareness that you're getting these voices through. So it's then just taking the time to pause and listen to what? Okay, well, what is actually true? Well, that's so good.

Andrea Gullick: 51:16

Because we do like, I don't think there'd be a person on the planet that would say, I've never thought, or this won't work, or I've never felt like it's useless, or I've never felt like, Oh, that would be amazing. Like, we, we sense these things, they're there. But we have been, we live in such busy times, to, in my opinion, keep it to hold us off from this because that innate wisdom in, like, that's the making of the universe right there. And the more of us that access that is just, that's that's where we create beautiful, harmonious relationships and communities. And

Ian Hawkins: 51:59

yeah, it's a whole other rabbit hole. But the very systems we live in, are designed to keep us out of that space. And because it's harder to control people, and you can look at things however you want to, but ultimately, that's the government's job to keep us in control. Rightly or wrongly. But if you can think for yourself, and not get caught in groupthink and, and get swept along with the masses, well, then it's harder to control Europe. So that's what a gift that you're giving the people that you work with, to to not only, I'm sure the confidence just to be themselves, but that next layer of depth around that, to be able to then connect them to something even bigger beyond themselves, which is there's so much freedom in that, right?

Andrea Gullick: 52:51

Yeah, because it takes it's almost like it takes the pressure off. I was having this conversation today with a group that I was working with we do I do a little bit of Jenkees work, and we were having this conversation and when we are trying to work out what is it that I'm meant to do? How am I meant to do this? What in whatever situation it is, there's so much pressure on ourselves. But when we recognize that it's us and our highest self, then it's almost like this shared journey. And when things don't play out, or when we don't know more. So what like when you're in the void, and it's like, what am I meant to do? I don't know what I'm meant to do. And I've had this with my business for the last couple of years. Oh my gosh, what am I meant to do? How am I meant to do it? They said to do this, they said to do that? Doesn't feel right does it? When you can instead of feeling like you don't know, or things haven't worked out because it hasn't gone how you thought that's an amazing opportunity to get excited. Like let's say for example, I'll put it in, in an example because I don't know if I'm making sense. But let's say you rent, right there's a rental crisis. And you've been you've been asked to leave because they for whatever reason, and it's like, oh my gosh, oh my god, what are we gonna do? Where are we going to leave? Oh my goodness. Instead of that. It's like, Oh, my goodness, what adventure is the universe got for us now? Yeah. And it might not be the most immediate things same as if a relationship or a friendship or if there's some kind of difficult situation, literally being able to open up to Oh, my goodness, what's next? Like, I wonder what is next? Instead of like, Oh, my goodness, like, Oh, this is so crap. I don't know what I'm gonna do. That's no unfair. And that's not and this is that and we can't do this and we can't do that and what is

Ian Hawkins: 54:49

Yeah. Because that that drama circle keeps us in place of being the victim right, and will never be able to move forward in a way that He's going to be joyful or fulfilling to us because we'll just continue to play at the same cycles.

Andrea Gullick: 55:06

Well, and that's the thing, isn't it? If you are looking at all of the things, and I've had this have actually just had this experience with a client, when you when something happens, and then you look at that there is no solution. And I don't, I don't know what to do. This is like the worst thing, it's so stressful, you are kinking the flow of opportunity towards you. And if you really come from a place of there are no mistakes or nothing is wrong. Everything just is, then how does anything go wrong?

Ian Hawkins: 55:36

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Yes,

Andrea Gullick: 55:41

I'm not necessarily saying that I know that every day, I am a human who has that works on this all the time myself. But that is the fundamental truth that I know. If you are open to all possibilities, and that everything is just is there, nothing can really truly go wrong.

Ian Hawkins: 55:59

Yeah, and I love that because every guest that comes on myself, like, because we're doing this work, and we've been on this journey doesn't mean that now we don't deal with stuff. If anything, the challenges get bigger. It's just that you get so much better at dealing with the writing. And maybe people might listen and go, Well, how can Andrea's challenges get bigger after what she's been through, but it's like, at each layer, there's something else there that we just didn't even know was there. Now, I'm not saying that's a traumatic event that might be scary. It's more just a behavior pattern that we didn't even know was having such a detrimental mental impact on our life now. And I think that's the important bit is like, when when we're doing this work, right, we're helping people it's not about going through and trawling through the endless crap. It's like, what's going on now? And how do we make it better? Right?

Andrea Gullick: 56:55

And how do we just be okay with where we are? Like, there's no way that we are arriving to we are living every moment of every day? And if you come into a moment that doesn't feel peaceful? Or you want it to feel more peaceful or more flowy? Or okay, then what? What's the thought? Or the action or what what needs to take place? Not so much. Around what, what you need to do, but who do you need to be? And that's the thing is that? That's what I'm always with is, who am I? And how do I be me? And where am I not being me? And then what do I need to do to come back to being just me?

Ian Hawkins: 57:38

Yeah, absolutely. And then once we know who we are and what we need to do, it's then the key parties are taking the action right. Now, that's simply a good segue into something that they come up before. Sandra, you've mentioned a lot about the guidance that comes through. And we had a conversation a couple weeks ago, and I'm like, I've just had these physical symptoms going on. Like, is that like, I got that right. And you're just like, what the fly? How did you do that? Well, I don't know. I just, I just that that voice that comes through do so at the same thing. When you were talking about being busy. I got that. Left left leg but specifically knee. So what? Talking about busyness being a mum, having how many children three children? Plus a business? Like, How challenging is that? juggling all of that? And what could you tips? Could you give people listening, particularly those in business all who are mums that it's going to help them navigate that?

Andrea Gullick: 58:46

That's a good question. Because I feel like in particular, the last three years since I came into business, probably the last 12 months, I've I've really, really actually set back. So I homeschool my daughter now as well. So I have that business. So if I'm 100% honest in it, the greatest advice that I have is for people to feel the action that they need to take and whether it is a shooting. So for me when I first came in, I've never been a business woman before I was a teacher before now. And I thought it was going to be relatively easy. It's not always easy. But I would listen to everybody out there, I paid 1000s of dollars to do this for your website, do this. You've got to do that. They would write my words for me. And it was just all of this stuff. That was so not aligned for me. The way in which business they were wanting business to be done did not align with me. Now, in terms of going back to what we were talking about before There's been twice that I have gone and sat at the beach. And the first time I spoke to my husband, I literally brought him in and spoke to him sort of thing about, I need you to help open doors for me as a speaker, I need you to help open doors. And I that afternoon connected with someone in Dubai, who, who was a talent scout and who had presented Coldplay with an award back in 2008. My bridal waltz was yellow. And the song on my husband's funeral day was the scientist. Awesome. I now have a couple of clients that I work with in Dubai, through that. That was the easiest. Like, that was the easiest thing I ever did in my business. I built a website last week, because it's the right time for me to be able to build a new website and all of the struggle over the last couple of years has taught me how to do it myself. If we can trust Him what feels right for us, not what we are told what to do. If, if it feels right to send your kids to school, send him to school, if it feels right to homeschool, homeschool, if it feels right to work on weekends, and be home all week, then do it. The greatest advice I've got is to literally run your own race by what feels right to you. Love it.

Ian Hawkins: 1:01:42

There's so much freedom, there's so much security in knowing that. If you just listen to your own guidance, and this doesn't mean we just don't get strategy when I get exception tools from external. But knowing that the guidance that comes through through ourselves and what action to take, nothing's greater than that.

Andrea Gullick: 1:02:07

And that's the thing, it should be the filter like yes, I totally agree getting outside resources, we wouldn't be doing what we were doing if we didn't think that people bent and benefited from having someone walk by their side. But it has to come through that filter of does that feel like the right person to me? Does that feel like the right action to take? And if you are getting resistance to that within your gut that needs to be explored? Is it just a limiting belief? Or is it a signal that this is not right for you, and that is okay to follow?

Ian Hawkins: 1:02:45

Yeah, and that's a really great description is that it doesn't mean that every thing that's showing up in your body is bad. It doesn't mean that everything that's showing up for you, is good. It's just being able to have that space that you mentioned before to slow down and listen. And in a really basic level, contemplate exactly what it might be. And then trusting yourself, because ultimately, that's what it is trusting yourself to then make the right decision from then. And I guess the thing that comes to mind that is that any decision is going to get you there. But if you're just stuck in indecision, you'll just continue to play at the same loops, but but making a call.

Andrea Gullick: 1:03:28

And it's I think, really because we can get there in lots of different ways. Yeah, the thing is, how peaceful Do you want the journey to be? And the realization that, for me personally, easy is right. If my website was built in two days, it was that easy for me to pull that together. I spent days and days and weeks and weeks, a couple of years ago trying to work that out. It wasn't right. I know that it it added to it might being easier now. But timing is really important. And being able to trust that just because you think it needs to happen now. Doesn't necessarily mean that it's game on right now. And the when you were talking before, over the last couple of years of the journey and recognizing that a lot of people, a lot of this stuff is mindset, you know, get your mind, right. And I don't necessarily apply mindset stretch, begin recognize that. It's our soul. It's our identity. It's who we are that needs to confer and that is filtered through our heart through being that unconditional love for who we are. And then it needs to be our head. And if you do the acronym, it's s h h which is

Ian Hawkins: 1:04:56

nice.

Andrea Gullick: 1:04:58

So if we if We'd become mindful and then we quieten it down, we can hear our soul speaking to us, we can feel the nudges of what it is we want to do or who we want to be. And then we bring that up through the heart of, of loving and compassion and forgiveness and all of that, and then get your head in the game and get your action plan going.

Ian Hawkins: 1:05:21

Yeah. Now, I will say this next bit, being very clear that I'm generalizing, but that's the female operates very much from that place, like very naturally, men tend to come more from the thinking place, and quite often the overthinking place. So whether you're male or female, doesn't matter. But getting that blend, right, what you described there, it's like, a mind is important. But nowhere it's not. But making sure that we yeah, we trust, whatever comes through, if the if the thinking is the important part, when we take that time to quiet and shoosh, then go with that. But if it's not, then trust your heart as well. And I think, yeah, from anything from this chat is actually is that it's like it's, the more you can trust what comes through, even in those really dark moments, the more the easier things are going to be for you to move forward and, and be able to just stand on your own two feet, whatever that looks like.

Andrea Gullick: 1:06:25

And I think in terms of that, that soul, and those nudges, is really like our identity as well, isn't it like who we are. And for me, it's really about supporting people to have a really, really solid foundation of that, and then building everything else on top of that, because in my experience, if we, so if you think about it, as in a pyramid, like the five food groups, or whatnot, and your values are there, so some people might start with their relationships, and then it might be their career, or they might start with their career, and then their relationships and their money in the house and build it all up. And then we sit on top. Excellent. That's what's important to me, and I'm at the top I've I've arrived, I've, this is a success to me. But anything in underneath that and has the potential because it's external to us to move, change or disintegrate, and then everything's destabilized. And we fall to the bottom. If we start with a foundation of who we are, this is who I am. And everything that I build on top of that is an added on not the sum of who I am, then, then we are left with dealing with grief or, or sadness or whatever, we're not dealing with an identity crisis. Because we still know who we are

Ian Hawkins: 1:07:46

beautiful. And who we are, is made up of all of those different things from from our past, right, the good, bad, and everything in between, like you said before, the light, the dark and everything in between. So good. Now, you don't just mentor people around being comfortable in their own skin, but you're a speaker as well. So have you got anything coming up soon that people you can direct people towards is anything else you want to share with where people can find you and what you're up to at the moment.

Andrea Gullick: 1:08:21

So not necessarily for people to jump in on. But I am heading back to Victoria in October to speak with a few businesses. So to support the company in the culture. And just obviously, there's been a lot go on in the last couple of years in terms of coming back into the workplace. So and I'm obviously always open to anybody that might have a business or a company that wants an inspirational speaker to come in and really be able to hold that space and encourage their encourage their staff on what it is to be comfortable in your own skin. Because the more comfortable I am with me, the easier it is for me to let you be you. And that just creates much more cohesive workplace relations when there's stressful times and a great deal of change. So

Ian Hawkins: 1:09:11

yeah, well said. Call. So if you've got a business and you're looking for a speaker, Andrea, we'll have the links in the show notes there. But if you're just looking for more of that you have been comfortable with who you are and comfortable in your own skin, then make sure to check Andrea out and read all about her magic. Andrea, thank you so much for joining me and chatting so openly. I really appreciate the time and the wisdom that you shared. Thank you.

Andrea Gullick: 1:09:42

Thank you Amen. It's great to be here.

Ian Hawkins: 1:09:45

I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Grief Code podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Please share it with a friend or family member that you know would benefit from hearing it too. If you are truly ready to heal your unresolved or unknown grief Let's chat. Email me at info at Ian Hawkins coaching.com You can also stay connected with me by joining the Grief Code community at Ian Hawkins coaching.com forward slash The Grief Code and remember, so that I can help even more people to heal. Please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform.